DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
You're not smart enough to know how I think Moot.
What I care about is a guy like me who outperforms his peers yet can't negotiate a better pay package because of the union.
Wisconsin Power Play!
- Thread starter signalmankenneth
- Start date
What I care about is a guy like me who outperforms his peers yet can't negotiate a better pay package because of the union.
Well, for one, you're starting from the baseline provided by the collective bargaining agreement rather than starting from what wages and benefits would otherwise be absent a union and a CBA. Hence, you benefit from the CBA and the union. Second, an employer seeking to rid itself of the union would be inclined to negotiate more generous pay and benefits to individual employees than it provides under the CBA to undermine the union. Again, this anti-union premium has nothing to do with you and is instead based on the existence of the union and the employer's animus towards it. And cetera.
A highly desired employee with your qualifications should surely be able to find an employer out there which is able to compensate you at a level you so richly deserve without the interference of a pesky union.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Actually, I'd be negotiating based on my ability to make the company money, or based on competing salaries of like companies. Secondly, if unions are so good, why would an employer seek to undermine them?
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
I agree but it can't be a one way street. Though I am a staunch believer in collective bargaining rights and the rights of organized labor we need a balance between them and the entrepranuers of this nation. Neither one of them built this nation alone. Together they helped create the greatest nation in the world. Gov. Walker is just simply over reaching.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
True, which is where I went after bumping heads with the union. But that's not the issue. Why shouldn't I have had the option not to join the union in the first place?
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Exactly.
Because your fellow workers decided that they wanted to be represented by the union. You could have tried to convince your colleagues that representation by the union was not in their best interests if you so desired and sought to have the union decertified.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
You do but their not going to let you free load off of them. What about that don't you understand?
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Don't be ridiculous. I'm an individual and the union was entrenched in state politics and represented thousands of State employees. Why do you hate individuals so much?
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
You already failed to address the free loading answer, point 80. Why am I not surprised that you ignore that then bring up the same issue again?
I don't hate individuals. I just respect the results of even-handed participatory democracy in the workplace.
By the way, were you a government employee? If so, that's hilarious.
The reality is rank and file employees DO NOT have a say in whether they are represented by a union. If there is a union in place and you happen to work for the employer, you either pay fair share dues or you opt out. Even if you are given a window to opt out, which nowadays is almost unheard of, you are still covered under the collective bargaining agreement.
That's just the way the mop flops and how it was BARGAINED/NEGOTIATED by the union and management. It has nothing whatsover to do with the individual who does not want to belong to a friggin union. It is out of their hands.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Democracy is mob rule. That's why we have republican forms of government at each level. Why do you like mob rule?
Why is is "hilarious" that a state government job was paying the best money for guys right out of college and I took the job then left, seeing the dead-end career path?
Union representation of employees is not mob rule. In fact, it is the republican form of government in the workplace. The employees elect to have the union represent them.
It's hilarious given the amount of time you spend bitching about government spending and your claims that public sector employees are more highly compensated than their private sector counterparts. If that were true, you'd still be a state employee, no?
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
So first you said that that a union was democracy in action, now you're saying its republicanism. Now that's hilarious.
There's other reasons to choose a job other than pay, no?
I worked in the private sector....
we bargained with the company,
we made agreements with the company...
we had a fair and equitable relationship with the company...
we were paid the going rate for comparable work in our area of the state...
we didn't make unreasonable demands
the company didn't make unreasonable demands
unlike many unions of today...i.e. the Teachers Union, Police Union, etc.
What I was paid, my pension, vacation days, sick days or whether I reported to work at all, had absolutely no detrimental effect on the citizens of the community in general.....not their taxes and not their children....
A republican form of government?
Democracy?
When you MUST join?
When you MUST pay dues?
When you MUST support one particular political agenda?
Try again.
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No, I said that I support the results of even-handed participatory democracy in the workplace and that an elected union serves in a representative capacity for the employees. There is no conflict between those two concepts.
Yeah, but I thought you said that you sought alternative employment to obtain higher compensation, no?