Bfgrn
New member
They wrote it...
I thought Conservatives just LOVED the Constitution?
- Thread starter zappasguitar
- Start date
They wrote it...
The constitution was written by a group of radical left wing liberals who proposed doing away with the centuries old tradition of being ruled by a king who claimed to be under devine right.
They clearly stated that the government should not be involved in promoting or establishing religen.
Many wanted slavery outlawed and banned, but they were not all so liberal as to be able to get that into the document.
They were also pragmatic in the sense that they knew they could not get the MORE LIBERAL document that they truely wanted passed so they got what they could, then followed up with the Bill of Rights, even after that many of the founders fought the rest of there lives to make it more liberal.
They clearly stated that the government should not be involved in promoting or establishing religen.
Many wanted slavery outlawed and banned, but they were not all so liberal as to be able to get that into the document.
They were also pragmatic in the sense that they knew they could not get the MORE LIBERAL document that they truely wanted passed so they got what they could, then followed up with the Bill of Rights, even after that many of the founders fought the rest of there lives to make it more liberal.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
gee, the framers themselves distrusted government, so I figure i'm in damn fine company.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
links please.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
damn fine history revisionism there, jarod.
Bfgrn
New member
Liberals who wrote the Constitution...conservatives in 1776 were called Loyalists, Tories, Redcoats and Lobsterbacks...
Loyalists were American colonists who remained loyal to the Kingdom of Great Britain (and the British monarchy) during the American Revolutionary War. They were often referred to as Tories, Royalists, or King's Men by the Patriots, those who supported the revolution. When their cause was defeated, about 20% of the Loyalists fled or were driven out of the US to resettle in other parts of the British Empire, in Britain or elsewhere in British North America, especially East Ontario and New Brunswick, where they were called United Empire Loyalists. Most were compensated with land in Canada or through British claims procedures.
Historians have estimated that between 15 and 20 percent of the white population of the colonies were Loyalists.
Psychology of Loyalism
Larabee (1948) has identified eight characteristics of the Loyalists that made them essentially conservative:
* Psychologically they were older, better established, and resisted innovation.
* They thought resistance to the Crown—the legitimate government—was morally wrong.
* They were alienated when the Patriots resorted to violence, such as burning houses and tarring and feathering.
* They wanted to take a middle-of-the road position and were angry when forced by the Patriots to declare their opposition.
* They had a long-standing sentimental attachment to Britain (often with business and family links).
* They were procrastinators who realized that independence was bound to come some day, but wanted to postpone the moment.
* They were rightly cautious and afraid of anarchy or tyranny that might come from mob rule, which did cost many their property and security after the revolution.
* Some say they were pessimists who lacked the confidence in the future displayed by the Patriots, while others point to the memory and dreadful experience of many Scottish immigrants who had already seen or paid the price of rebellion in dispossession and clearance from their prior homeland.
Loyalist (American Revolution) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Reception_of_the_American_Loyalists.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Reception_of_the_American_Loyalists.jpg/300px-Reception_of_the_American_Loyalists.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/3/37/Reception_of_the_American_Loyalists.jpg/300px-Reception_of_the_American_Loyalists.jpg
SmarterthanYou
rebel
yes, you're talking CLASSIC liberals. not todays modern liberals. todays liberals are not even a distant relative to the classic liberal that founded this nation
Bfgrn
New member
Today's liberals are no different than they were in 1776. The malefactors of wealth Jefferson fought against have taken over his vision of an agrarian society. If he were alive today, he would be MORE radical and farther left than any Democrat in Congress. Jefferson was a staunch agrarian who hated urbanization. He feared industrialization as the root of corruption.
He was right...
I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered at the White House - with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.
President John F. Kennedy (Speaking at a White House dinner for Nobel Prize winners, 1962)
SmarterthanYou
rebel
Bullshit. you, yourself, have expressed that you are not a classic liberal in that you don't believe the founders wanted the people as well armed as a standing army. you really need to LEARN history instead of drinking the koolaid version that exists today.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Bfgrn
New member
And you're OK with that?
Of course not. If I were a Jew in Germany in 1938, I would have gotten out of there. I know hindsight is 20/20.
BUT, the 1938 law expanded gun rights for most Germans.
Bfgrn
New member
I already told you I support people's right to bear arm for their personal protection. I DON'T support your lunacy that our founders would allow citizens to possess bazookas, ICBM missiles, fighter jets and aircraft carriers.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
and i've told you that 'arms' as thought of by the founders were any weapons EQUAL to a standing army. I personally don't see the government using fighter planes, bombers, and nukes on the populace, but they have, and will, use tear gas, rubber bullets, concussion grenades, and if necessary, tanks and automatic weapons. THOSE should also be protected by the 2nd Amendment
SmarterthanYou
rebel
Bfgrn
New member
Well, I've decided the best way to protect my wife and children is a new set of Michelins for the wife's SUV...the tank will have to wait 'till next year...and I will need a bigger bathtub for the USS John F. Kennedy
SmarterthanYou
rebel
Well, I've decided the best way to protect my wife and children is a new set of Michelins for the wife's SUV...the tank will have to wait 'till next year...and I will need a bigger bathtub for the USS John F. Kennedy
if you need to make jokes to avoid the constitutional issue, well that's fine. but you know i'm right, you just can't accept the notion that the people should be equally armed. what is it about the people having military arms that terrifies you so?
SmarterthanYou
rebel
yeah, because tyrannical government never happens.
how did this nation come about again?
Bfgrn
New member
WHAT terrifies me...some sick right wing Timothy McVeigh 2nd amendment 'militia' type taking down commercial airliners with a shoulder mounted missile.