a new chinese threat

Schadenfreude

patriot and widower
from our 'friends' in china - does this make wwiii just a little bit closer?


US admiral: Carrier killer won't stop US Navy​

Associated Press/AP Online


By ERIC TALMADGE YOKOSUKA, Japan - A new "carrier killer" missile that has become a symbol of China's rising military might will not force the U.S. Navy to change the way it operates in the Pacific, a senior Navy commander told The Associated Press.

Defense analysts say the Dong Feng 21D missile could upend the balance of power in Asia, where U.S. aircraft carrier battle groups have ruled the waves since the end of World War II.

However, Vice Adm. Scott van Buskirk, commander of the U.S. 7th Fleet, told the AP in an interview that the Navy does not see the much-feared weapon as creating any insurmountable vulnerability for the U.S. carriers - the Navy's crown jewels.

"It's not the Achilles heel of our aircraft carriers or our Navy - it is one weapons system, one technology that is out there," Van Buskirk said in an interview this week on the bridge of the USS George Washington, the only carrier that is home-based in the western Pacific.

The DF 21D is unique in that it is believed capable of hitting a powerfully defended moving target - like the USS George Washington - with pinpoint precision. That objective is so complex that the Soviets gave up on a similar project.

The missile would penetrate defenses because its speed from launch would not allow enough time for carriers or other large ships to complete countermeasures.

That could seriously weaken Washington's ability to intervene in any potential conflict over Taiwan or North Korea, as well as deny U.S. ships safe access to international waters near China's 11,200-mile (18,000-kilometer) -long coastline.

Van Buskirk, whose fleet is responsible for most of the Pacific and Indian oceans, with 60-70 ships and 40,000 sailors and Marines under its command, said the capabilities of the Chinese missile are as yet unproven.

But he acknowledged it does raise special concerns.

"Any new capability is something that we try to monitor," he said.
"If there wasn't this to point to as a game changer, there would be something else," he said. "That term has been bandied about for many things. I think it really depends in how you define the game, whether it really changes it or not. It's a very specific scenario for a very specific capability - some things can be very impactful."

The development of the missile comes as China is increasingly venturing further out to sea and is becoming more assertive around its coastline and in disputes over territory.

Late last year, China and Japan were locked in a heated diplomatic row over several islands both claim in the East China Sea, an area regularly patrolled by U.S. Navy vessels. A flotilla of 10 Chinese warships, including advanced submarines and destroyers, passed through the Miyako Strait last April in the biggest transit of its kind to date.

Experts saw it as an attempt by China to test Japan and the united States and demonstrate its open water capabilities.

China has also expressed strong displeasure with U.S. carrier operations off the Korean Peninsula, saying that they posed a security risk to its capital.
Still, van Buskirk said the Navy has no intention of altering its mission because of the new threat and will continue to operate in the seas around Japan, Korea, the Philippines and anywhere else it deems necessary.

"We won't change these operations because of this specific technology that might be out there," he told The AP while the USS George Washington was in its home port just south of Tokyo for repairs last week. "But we will carefully monitor and adapt to it."

The faster-than-expected development of the missile has set off alarm bells in Washington. Further, China is developing a stealth fighter jet that could be used to support its navy in a potential conflict and hopes to deploy its first aircraft carriers over the next decade.

Before visiting Beijing last month, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he has been concerned about the anti-ship missile since he took office.

In December, Adm. Robert Willard, the head of the U.S. Pacific Command, told Japan's Asahi Shimbun newspaper he believed the missile program had achieved "initial operational capability," meaning a workable design had been settled on and was being further developed.

The missile is considered a key component of China's strategy of denying U.S. planes and ships access to waters off its coast. The strategy includes overlapping layers of air defense systems, naval assets such as submarines, and advanced ballistic missile systems - all woven together with a network of satellites.

At its most capable, the DF 21D could be launched from land with enough accuracy to penetrate the defenses of even the most advanced moving aircraft carrier at a distance of more than 900 miles (1,500 kilometers).
To allay regional security fears, van Buskirk said, China needs to be more forthcoming about its intentions.

"It goes back to transparency," he said. "Using the United States as an example, we are very clear about our intent when conducting routine and normal operations in international waters ... That is what you might expect from other nations that might operate in this region.

A service of YellowBrix, Inc. .
 
from our 'friends' in china - does this make wwiii just a little bit closer?


US admiral: Carrier killer won't stop US Navy​

Associated Press/AP Online


By ERIC TALMADGE YOKOSUKA, Japan - A new "carrier killer" missile that has become a symbol of China's rising military might will not force the U.S. Navy to change the way it operates in the Pacific, a senior Navy commander told The Associated Press.

Defense analysts say the Dong Feng 21D missile could upend the balance of power in Asia, where U.S. aircraft carrier battle groups have ruled the waves since the end of World War II.

However, Vice Adm. Scott van Buskirk, commander of the U.S. 7th Fleet, told the AP in an interview that the Navy does not see the much-feared weapon as creating any insurmountable vulnerability for the U.S. carriers - the Navy's crown jewels.

"It's not the Achilles heel of our aircraft carriers or our Navy - it is one weapons system, one technology that is out there," Van Buskirk said in an interview this week on the bridge of the USS George Washington, the only carrier that is home-based in the western Pacific.

The DF 21D is unique in that it is believed capable of hitting a powerfully defended moving target - like the USS George Washington - with pinpoint precision. That objective is so complex that the Soviets gave up on a similar project.

The missile would penetrate defenses because its speed from launch would not allow enough time for carriers or other large ships to complete countermeasures.

That could seriously weaken Washington's ability to intervene in any potential conflict over Taiwan or North Korea, as well as deny U.S. ships safe access to international waters near China's 11,200-mile (18,000-kilometer) -long coastline.

Van Buskirk, whose fleet is responsible for most of the Pacific and Indian oceans, with 60-70 ships and 40,000 sailors and Marines under its command, said the capabilities of the Chinese missile are as yet unproven.

But he acknowledged it does raise special concerns.

"Any new capability is something that we try to monitor," he said.
"If there wasn't this to point to as a game changer, there would be something else," he said. "That term has been bandied about for many things. I think it really depends in how you define the game, whether it really changes it or not. It's a very specific scenario for a very specific capability - some things can be very impactful."

The development of the missile comes as China is increasingly venturing further out to sea and is becoming more assertive around its coastline and in disputes over territory.

Late last year, China and Japan were locked in a heated diplomatic row over several islands both claim in the East China Sea, an area regularly patrolled by U.S. Navy vessels. A flotilla of 10 Chinese warships, including advanced submarines and destroyers, passed through the Miyako Strait last April in the biggest transit of its kind to date.

Experts saw it as an attempt by China to test Japan and the united States and demonstrate its open water capabilities.

China has also expressed strong displeasure with U.S. carrier operations off the Korean Peninsula, saying that they posed a security risk to its capital.
Still, van Buskirk said the Navy has no intention of altering its mission because of the new threat and will continue to operate in the seas around Japan, Korea, the Philippines and anywhere else it deems necessary.

"We won't change these operations because of this specific technology that might be out there," he told The AP while the USS George Washington was in its home port just south of Tokyo for repairs last week. "But we will carefully monitor and adapt to it."

The faster-than-expected development of the missile has set off alarm bells in Washington. Further, China is developing a stealth fighter jet that could be used to support its navy in a potential conflict and hopes to deploy its first aircraft carriers over the next decade.

Before visiting Beijing last month, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he has been concerned about the anti-ship missile since he took office.

In December, Adm. Robert Willard, the head of the U.S. Pacific Command, told Japan's Asahi Shimbun newspaper he believed the missile program had achieved "initial operational capability," meaning a workable design had been settled on and was being further developed.

The missile is considered a key component of China's strategy of denying U.S. planes and ships access to waters off its coast. The strategy includes overlapping layers of air defense systems, naval assets such as submarines, and advanced ballistic missile systems - all woven together with a network of satellites.

At its most capable, the DF 21D could be launched from land with enough accuracy to penetrate the defenses of even the most advanced moving aircraft carrier at a distance of more than 900 miles (1,500 kilometers).
To allay regional security fears, van Buskirk said, China needs to be more forthcoming about its intentions.

"It goes back to transparency," he said. "Using the United States as an example, we are very clear about our intent when conducting routine and normal operations in international waters ... That is what you might expect from other nations that might operate in this region.

A service of YellowBrix, Inc. .

Without reading all of that because I am, at heart, an idle sob. I would ask this: How can there be a balance of power when:

Defense analysts say the Dong Feng 21D missile could upend the balance of power in Asia, where U.S. aircraft carrier battle groups have ruled the waves since the end of World War II.

It seems to me that the Chinese are actually balancing the power of the US. Isnt that fair?
 
from our 'friends' in china - does this make wwiii just a little bit closer?


US admiral: Carrier killer won't stop US Navy​

Associated Press/AP Online


By ERIC TALMADGE YOKOSUKA, Japan - A new "carrier killer" missile that has become a symbol of China's rising military might will not force the U.S. Navy to change the way it operates in the Pacific, a senior Navy commander told The Associated Press.

Defense analysts say the Dong Feng 21D missile could upend the balance of power in Asia, where U.S. aircraft carrier battle groups have ruled the waves since the end of World War II.

However, Vice Adm. Scott van Buskirk, commander of the U.S. 7th Fleet, told the AP in an interview that the Navy does not see the much-feared weapon as creating any insurmountable vulnerability for the U.S. carriers - the Navy's crown jewels.

"It's not the Achilles heel of our aircraft carriers or our Navy - it is one weapons system, one technology that is out there," Van Buskirk said in an interview this week on the bridge of the USS George Washington, the only carrier that is home-based in the western Pacific.

The DF 21D is unique in that it is believed capable of hitting a powerfully defended moving target - like the USS George Washington - with pinpoint precision. That objective is so complex that the Soviets gave up on a similar project.

The missile would penetrate defenses because its speed from launch would not allow enough time for carriers or other large ships to complete countermeasures.

That could seriously weaken Washington's ability to intervene in any potential conflict over Taiwan or North Korea, as well as deny U.S. ships safe access to international waters near China's 11,200-mile (18,000-kilometer) -long coastline.

Van Buskirk, whose fleet is responsible for most of the Pacific and Indian oceans, with 60-70 ships and 40,000 sailors and Marines under its command, said the capabilities of the Chinese missile are as yet unproven.

But he acknowledged it does raise special concerns.

"Any new capability is something that we try to monitor," he said.
"If there wasn't this to point to as a game changer, there would be something else," he said. "That term has been bandied about for many things. I think it really depends in how you define the game, whether it really changes it or not. It's a very specific scenario for a very specific capability - some things can be very impactful."

The development of the missile comes as China is increasingly venturing further out to sea and is becoming more assertive around its coastline and in disputes over territory.

Late last year, China and Japan were locked in a heated diplomatic row over several islands both claim in the East China Sea, an area regularly patrolled by U.S. Navy vessels. A flotilla of 10 Chinese warships, including advanced submarines and destroyers, passed through the Miyako Strait last April in the biggest transit of its kind to date.

Experts saw it as an attempt by China to test Japan and the united States and demonstrate its open water capabilities.

China has also expressed strong displeasure with U.S. carrier operations off the Korean Peninsula, saying that they posed a security risk to its capital.
Still, van Buskirk said the Navy has no intention of altering its mission because of the new threat and will continue to operate in the seas around Japan, Korea, the Philippines and anywhere else it deems necessary.

"We won't change these operations because of this specific technology that might be out there," he told The AP while the USS George Washington was in its home port just south of Tokyo for repairs last week. "But we will carefully monitor and adapt to it."

The faster-than-expected development of the missile has set off alarm bells in Washington. Further, China is developing a stealth fighter jet that could be used to support its navy in a potential conflict and hopes to deploy its first aircraft carriers over the next decade.

Before visiting Beijing last month, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he has been concerned about the anti-ship missile since he took office.

In December, Adm. Robert Willard, the head of the U.S. Pacific Command, told Japan's Asahi Shimbun newspaper he believed the missile program had achieved "initial operational capability," meaning a workable design had been settled on and was being further developed.

The missile is considered a key component of China's strategy of denying U.S. planes and ships access to waters off its coast. The strategy includes overlapping layers of air defense systems, naval assets such as submarines, and advanced ballistic missile systems - all woven together with a network of satellites.

At its most capable, the DF 21D could be launched from land with enough accuracy to penetrate the defenses of even the most advanced moving aircraft carrier at a distance of more than 900 miles (1,500 kilometers).
To allay regional security fears, van Buskirk said, China needs to be more forthcoming about its intentions.

"It goes back to transparency," he said. "Using the United States as an example, we are very clear about our intent when conducting routine and normal operations in international waters ... That is what you might expect from other nations that might operate in this region.

A service of YellowBrix, Inc. .

It could also be seen as the Pentagon needing to justify a new and extremely expensive white elephant. Isn't the Patriot missile supposed to be able to counter such threats?
 
It could also be seen as the Pentagon needing to justify a new and extremely expensive white elephant. Isn't the Patriot missile supposed to be able to counter such threats?

the key term is moving target - the patriot missile is designed to kill ballistic targets aimed at fixed locations - the calculations and target acquisition are easier than for a very high speed missile that can track a moving target with precision

i other words, we do not have a defense for this missile, but i think that we will develop one and the arms race goes into overdrive

we got caught resting on our butts
 
the key term is moving target - the patriot missile is designed to kill ballistic targets aimed at fixed locations - the calculations and target acquisition are easier than for a very high speed missile that can track a moving target with precision

i other words, we do not have a defense for this missile, but i think that we will develop one and the arms race goes into overdrive

we got caught resting on our butts

Targeting a moving vessel at sea with precision from a long distance is no mean feat. How is this missile guided, does it use infra red, radar or GPS?
 
the key term is moving target - the patriot missile is designed to kill ballistic targets aimed at fixed locations - the calculations and target acquisition are easier than for a very high speed missile that can track a moving target with precision

i other words, we do not have a defense for this missile, but i think that we will develop one and the arms race goes into overdrive

we got caught resting on our butts

we do not have a defense for this missile

I'm sorry to say this, but that is exactly how the rest of the world has always felt about Ameria. We have lived under the threat of America for decades. We are allies, not for what we have in common but because it is cheaper and safer to be on the same side as the bully.
 
Targeting a moving vessel at sea with precision from a long distance is no mean feat. How is this missile guided, does it use infra red, radar or GPS?

i do not know, it could be using GPS, but i suspect that the chinese have a satellite with look down tracking capability that communicates with the missle
 
I think it is a classic case of the Pentagon feeding bullshit stories to a tame press to put pressure on the Obama admin to cough up for some more white elephants. They haven't got the Russians as bogeymen any more so they need a new one.

possibly, however, congress is forcing some weapon systems on the pentagon to placate local jobs

cutting the military budget is always difficult because defense contractors have learned to spread jobs for military systems around the nation
 


who says that it would not be
geosynchronous - if they were mainly interested in the area near china, a single satellite would be all that they would need

I doubt that you could get accurate enough info from 23,000 odd miles up.
It would also be very easy to target the satellite and destroy it.
 
The Chinese weaponry is 40years behind americans. The would never stand a chance unless they invaded with millions into usa.
 
It could also be seen as the Pentagon needing to justify a new and extremely expensive white elephant. Isn't the Patriot missile supposed to be able to counter such threats?
No, you'd be thinking of the Aegis system. The Patriot system is land based and intended for tactical ballistic missiles.

Either way, I doubt the new Chinese missile is anything but a reskinned SN-22 Russian missile. Those have limited success against older Aegis systems, but it requires a fuck ton of them to work. And that doesn't count on CWIS.
 
Just read the article. WOW....this is laughable in it's premise.

A land based ballistic missile being launched at a moving target?

Yeah, ok. I'll be sure to change my pants now.
 
No, you'd be thinking of the Aegis system. The Patriot system is land based and intended for tactical ballistic missiles.

Either way, I doubt the new Chinese missile is anything but a reskinned SN-22 Russian missile. Those have limited success against older Aegis systems, but it requires a fuck ton of them to work. And that doesn't count on CWIS.

I still don't understand how they are guided and how they lock onto their targets. What type of trajectory do they have?
 
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