Ronald Reagan at 100: The Darker Legacy

WinterBorn said:
Reagan did some great stuff. I admire a lot of what he did. But, like Mott, this idolizing him like the right does is sorta sick.

Yes, he did great stuff. He also supported murderous dictators, broke laws, lied about it, and helped create some ugly situations for us all over the world.

He wanted ketsup listed as a vegetable in school lunches.

He put Watts in as the secretary of the interior. Does anyone remember Watts' response to someone talking about the terrible decisions he made about use of federal lands? He actually said God was going to have judgement day soon, so we needn't worry about it.
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I think one would be hard pressed to find an example of a worse cabinet level executive in all of US history then James Watt.
 
Yurt said:
i the far sides of both parties are the most vocal. the middle ground has lost its voice. in some ways, reagan was that voice.
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Not hardly. Reagan? Middle ground? Reagan made no bones about being a conservative ideologue. He was hardly a voice for the middle ground. That is, unless you mean that Reagan could reach across the political divide and work with people he disagreed with. That he could and that is sorely missing in Washington.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Not hardly. Reagan? Middle ground? Reagan made no bones about being a conservative ideologue. He was hardly a voice for the middle ground. That is, unless you mean that Reagan could reach across the political divide and work with people he disagreed with. That he could and that is sorely missing in Washington.
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i understood that he often sought the middle ground...he did have his philosophies, however, he often talked about the middle ground in terms of finding a solution, therefore, he didn't always seek only a right side solution to america's problems....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I can go along with that.....I grew up a Democrat.......even campaigned for McCarthy while I was in college.......I voted for Carter the first time around......after four years of that I decided to vote for Reagan instead.....
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To paraphrase Charles Barclay. "I was Republican until they went insane!" I became a Republican in 1979. Cast my first vote for Bush 1 in the primaries then voted for Reagan. Was a registered Republican till 2003. Changed my party affiliation when that idiot Bush 2 lied to the nation and invaded Iraq.
 
Reagan inspired a ton of confidence in people - that's no small thing for a leader. His persona was naturally suited for the Presidency.

However, his policies hurt many, many people. People tend to gloss over that when mythologizing his legacy.
 
Yurt said:
i understood that he often sought the middle ground...he did have his philosophies, however, he often talked about the middle ground in terms of finding a solution, therefore, he didn't always seek only a right side solution to america's problems....
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Thats true to an extent. There were certain issues in which he would not give ground but in general he was willing to compromise for the greater good. Hell he was even willing to admit to mistakes and try to rectify them. An attitude that is sorely missing in today's Washington.
 
Wow.... Things have really hit an all-time low for pinhead liberals. Imagine, being relegated to bashing dead would-be centenarians.... life pretty much sucks, huh?

Ronald Wilson Reagan was the most popular and probably the most outstanding president of our lifetime. His conservative philosophy lives on today in the Tea Party movement, as strong as it ever was. Liberals despise Reagan for everything he stood for, which is basically, everything a liberal is NOT. It doesn't surprise me liberals have a negative view of Reagan, it does surprise me, they need to bring him up to avoid discussing the issues of the day. Oh... It would have been his 100th birthday, that's just a wonderful opportunity to bring him up and trash and bash his legacy.... right libbies? That's where your ethics and integrity are at these days, isn't it?
 
Yurt said:
and the demonizing by the left is not sick?
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I didn't see the opening article as demonizing. The vegetable joke was kinda tacky, but not that bad. After all, the man did want to count ketsup as a veggie, often for kids who's only balanced meal was at school.

I don't see this stuff as an attack as much as a balance of reality.
 
Dixie said:
Wow.... Things have really hit an all-time low for pinhead liberals. Imagine, being relegated to bashing dead would-be centenarians.... life pretty much sucks, huh?

Ronald Wilson Reagan was the most popular and probably the most outstanding president of our lifetime. His conservative philosophy lives on today in the Tea Party movement, as strong as it ever was. Liberals despise Reagan for everything he stood for, which is basically, everything a liberal is NOT. It doesn't surprise me liberals have a negative view of Reagan, it does surprise me, they need to bring him up to avoid discussing the issues of the day. Oh... It would have been his 100th birthday, that's just a wonderful opportunity to bring him up and trash and bash his legacy.... right libbies? That's where your ethics and integrity are at these days, isn't it?
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Dixie, your ravings about Reagan are exactly what we are talking about.

Most of the posts say that they admire Reagan and that he was a great president, but also want his mistakes and scandals remembered, so as not to create the mythology you seem to prefer over reality.
 
WinterBorn said:
Dixie, your ravings about Reagan are exactly what we are talking about.

Most of the posts say that they admire Reagan and that he was a great president, but also want his mistakes and scandals remembered, so as not to create the mythology you seem to prefer over reality.
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He didn't have any mistakes and scandals... closest thing to a "mistake" he ever made, was selecting George Bush as his VP. That was a pretty big one, in my opinion... but not completely unforgivable.

Most of the other load of crap dumped on him by liberals, is just that... CRAP! There is no basis for it, there is no substantiation for the allegations, it's just a hodgepodge of conjecturing bullshit and warped opinion of a truly great American.
 
Dixie said:
He didn't have any mistakes and scandals... closest thing to a "mistake" he ever made, was selecting George Bush as his VP. That was a pretty big one, in my opinion... but not completely unforgivable.

Most of the other load of crap dumped on him by liberals, is just that... CRAP! There is no basis for it, there is no substantiation for the allegations, it's just a hodgepodge of conjecturing bullshit and warped opinion of a truly great American.
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What? Dixie, you are completely delusional. The liberals didn't dump James Watts in as Secretary of the Interior. Liberals didn't prop up petty dictators or use drug dealers in an off-the-books war. Liberals didn't want to count ketsup as a vegetable in school lunchs. Liberals didn't want to trade arms for hostages. Liberals didn't think it would be a good idea to damn up the Colorado River.


Reagan did some great stuff. He was one of last great leaders and unifiers we have had in Washington. He inspired people and got us up and kicking again.

But this bullshit of "He didn't have any mistakes and scandals" is just denial and a refusal to see him as a man instead of some sort of anti-liberal god of the republican party.
 
WinterBorn said:
What? Dixie, you are completely delusional. The liberals didn't dump James Watts in as Secretary of the Interior. Liberals didn't prop up petty dictators or use drug dealers in an off-the-books war. Liberals didn't want to count ketsup as a vegetable in school lunchs. Liberals didn't want to trade arms for hostages. Liberals didn't think it would be a good idea to damn up the Colorado River.....BLAH BLAH BLAH LIBERAL BULLSHIT AND BLATHER BLAH BLAH!
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....Like I said!


Each one of the things on your laundry list, is a hyped-up load of horse shit from liberals who don't like Ronald Reagan, and seek to destroy his legacy at any cost. Tell me you aren't so stupid as to not understand that? You want to come here and act like you are some kind of conservative democrat who isn't as nuts as the typical socialist liberals here, but you follow around behind the propagandists with your little straw, sucking up the koolaid as fast as they can pour it out! Really, you are worse than them! At least they have the intelligence and sense to know what the hell they are doing, you are a totally clueless nitwit following around with your straw, waiting for the next dumping of liberal koolaid to suck up and regurgitate!
 
Dixie said:
....Like I said!


Each one of the things on your laundry list, is a hyped-up load of horse shit from liberals who don't like Ronald Reagan, and seek to destroy his legacy at any cost. Tell me you aren't so stupid as to not understand that? You want to come here and act like you are some kind of conservative democrat who isn't as nuts as the typical socialist liberals here, but you follow around behind the propagandists with your little straw, sucking up the koolaid as fast as they can pour it out! Really, you are worse than them! At least they have the intelligence and sense to know what the hell they are doing, you are a totally clueless nitwit following around with your straw, waiting for the next dumping of liberal koolaid to suck up and regurgitate!
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Which one of the things I mentioned was invented by liberals?

Was James Watts just misunderstood?

Is ketsup actually a vegetable in a meal?

Did Reagan's administration not prop up petty dictators?

Did Reagan not bail out the S&Ls?




Are you actually saying Reagan had no mistakes and no scandals??? (other than having George H Bush as VP)
 
WinterBorn said:
I didn't see the opening article as demonizing. The vegetable joke was kinda tacky, but not that bad. After all, the man did want to count ketsup as a veggie, often for kids who's only balanced meal was at school.

I don't see this stuff as an attack as much as a balance of reality.
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The big Reagan picture will be a topic of contention for historians for years to come. In the meantime, it should not be forgotten that there was a dark side to the Reagan presidency. And that deserves as much attention as Reagan's famous sunny disposition.

An entire book could be written chronicling the dreadful deeds of the Reagan crowd
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dark side? dreadful? come on winterborn, that is not trying to demonize him?

the first thing on the list could be said of clinton and obama, yet its dreadful and dark for reagan to have done so...
 
WinterBorn said:
Which one of the things I mentioned was invented by liberals?

Was James Watts just misunderstood? ....WHO???

Is ketsup actually a vegetable in a meal? ....No, so fucking what?

Did Reagan's administration not prop up petty dictators? Don't they all?

Did Reagan not bail out the S&Ls? Don't they all?

Are you actually saying Reagan had no mistakes and no scandals??? (other than having George H Bush as VP)
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That's exactly what I posted, can't you read it? No mistakes, no scandals... closest thing to a "mistake" was making G.H.W. Bush the VP, but I have forgiven him for that.
 
Yurt said:
dark side? dreadful? come on winterborn, that is not trying to demonize him?

the first thing on the list could be said of clinton and obama, yet its dreadful and dark for reagan to have done so...
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I have never seen liberals proclaim Clinton or Obama to be the miracle worker conservatives claim Reagan was.

This article was written not so much about Reagan but about the worship of him by modern conservatives. You have only to look at Dixie's response of "He didn't have any mistakes and scandals" to see the truth of that.

Look back at the article and you can see the author giving Reagan credit and begrudging reasons for doing what he did, like his excusing some of the stuff with "he was fighting against communism".

This article doesn't attack Reagan. It makes fun of the members of the Church of The Gipper, like Deacon Dixie.
 
Dixie said:
That's exactly what I posted, can't you read it? No mistakes, no scandals... closest thing to a "mistake" was making G.H.W. Bush the VP, but I have forgiven him for that.
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Oh, so the fact that you don't know who James Watts is means Reagan didn't make a mistake?

"Don't they all" is your best answer? So if other presidents do it it means its not a mistake or a scandal?

Your denial is amazing. No mistakes? lmao Talk about a koolaid drinker, you have a keg of it by your bed, huh Dixie.
 
Liberals didn't want to count ketsup as a vegetable in school lunchs.
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I suppose, to a liberal nitwit pinhead, wanting to consider ketchup a vegetable in school lunches is much more controversial and scandalous than say... president FDR wanting to appoint two additional judges to the Supreme Court, so he could implement his socialist agenda, huh?
 
WinterBorn said:
I have never seen liberals proclaim Clinton or Obama to be the miracle worker conservatives claim Reagan was.

This article was written not so much about Reagan but about the worship of him by modern conservatives. You have only to look at Dixie's response of "He didn't have any mistakes and scandals" to see the truth of that.

Look back at the article and you can see the author giving Reagan credit and begrudging reasons for doing what he did, like his excusing some of the stuff with "he was fighting against communism".

This article doesn't attack Reagan. It makes fun of the members of the Church of The Gipper, like Deacon Dixie.
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are you serious, there are numerous libs who profess obama to be amazing miracle worker...cbs just put up show about him calling him the president of the world....clinton was a miracle worker on the ecnomy and so forth....the only thing i see some libs saying negative about clinton is in regards to his dick. and even then, you get many libs saying its his private life and many libs crying foul over the "witchhunt"....he is by and large held up as a saint wrongly attacked by a vast right wing conspiracy....

i really don't think using dixie as an example for republicans or conservatives helps your theory out winterborn....
 
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