the epa has approved 15% gasahol

Mott the Hoople said:
If this will gain us energy independence or help lead us in that strategic direction then it would be a small sacrifice to make.
Click to expand...

As I sit in my ethanol-afflicted convertible at the side of the road being pitied or mocked by passers-by as being just another victim of mid-life crisis you call that a SMALL sacrifice? :viol:
 
Dune said:
It would be one thing if the ignorant bastards at least made cellulosic ethanol from the stalks and cobs, but to use just the kernals, for a net increase in use of fossil fuel, while reducing the value to the gasoline consumer due to lower milage, combined with increased cost is criminal, and that you defend such, while glibly dismissing the starvation issue is proof of your ignorance.
Click to expand...

actually, in order to make use of stalks and cobs you would have to completely redesign the machinery used to harvest corn, as those are presently pulverized to return to the soil to replenish the nutrients that gradually leech out of it.......simply not practical....

next, there is no "net increase" in the use of fossil fuel, as ethanol can be produced using electricity which can be generated from a number of sources and is very seldom generated from fuel which needs to be imported into the country.....even the fuel used on farms to operate machinery is primarily biodiesel at present....

finally, there is no significant effect of corn ethanol production on food......most American corn is used as animal feed.....and since ethanol production uses only the sugars in corn, which cattle cannot digest anyway, the brewer's mash that is a by product is actually a preferred cattle feed over raw ground corn.....

the next most significant use of American corn is corn syrup.....the net result of tripling the cost of corn is a three cent increase in your next can of Coke.....

there is no significant use of American corn to feed starving third world countries......for one thing, the cost of transporting it is too high, for another half the third world countries won't permit it to be imported because we use genetically altered seeds......
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Not only that I did it with out calling him an ignorant jackalope nazi liberal repelican! I used manners and knowledge in the same sentence.....I should be banned! :(
Click to expand...

actually, I'm pissed.....I said the same thing in more detail and YOU get the credit for sounding "scientific"......
 
apple0154 said:
As I sit in my ethanol-afflicted convertible at the side of the road being pitied or mocked by passers-by as being just another victim of mid-life crisis you call that a SMALL sacrifice? :viol:
Click to expand...

if you were stupid enough to use ethanol in a vehicle that couldn't handle it why should we pity you?......do you think antique car owners didn't have to deal with the same issue with unleaded fuels?......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
actually, in order to make use of stalks and cobs you would have to completely redesign the machinery used to harvest corn, as those are presently pulverized to return to the soil to replenish the nutrients that gradually leech out of it.......simply not practical....

next, there is no "net increase" in the use of fossil fuel, as ethanol can be produced using electricity which can be generated from a number of sources and is very seldom generated from fuel which needs to be imported into the country.....even the fuel used on farms to operate machinery is primarily biodiesel at present....

finally, there is no significant effect of corn ethanol production on food......most American corn is used as animal feed.....and since ethanol production uses only the sugars in corn, which cattle cannot digest anyway, the brewer's mash that is a by product is actually a preferred cattle feed over raw ground corn.....

the next most significant use of American corn is corn syrup.....the net result of tripling the cost of corn is a three cent increase in your next can of Coke.....

there is no significant use of American corn to feed starving third world countries......for one thing, the cost of transporting it is too high, for another half the third world countries won't permit it to be imported because we use genetically altered seeds......
Click to expand...

Now here's an idea:

…In conjunction with a national program known as “FreeWays to Fuel” ( freewaystofuel.org), researchers at N.C. State University are working to grow canola and sunflower crops along the wasted edges of highways and other marginal areas.

…Already, researchers have grown successful harvests in experimental plots. In some cases, they have been able to produce 550 pounds of sunflower seeds and 40 gallons of biodiesel per acre. Ultimately, (Matt) Veal (an assistant professor in the Biological and Agricultural Engineering Department at NCSU) hopes enough fuel can be made to power N.C. Department of Transportation vehicles.

…DOT crews already are hard at work identifying areas where biofuels crops could be grown. Selecting large plots would make startup operations economically worthwhile. “Our perspective is that sizeable acreages will be ideal,” Sherrod said.

According to Veal, there are additional economic incentives for growing the biofuels crops. The state DOT has already demonstrated the potential cost savings of the program. By growing sunflowers on a 10-acre plot, the department saved tax dollars that would have been spent on routine mowing and maintenance.
Click to expand...
http://advancedbiofuelsusa.info/growing-fuel-by-the-roadside
 
Economics makes sense:

Full_Economic_Model.jpg
 
PostmodernProphet said:
actually, in order to make use of stalks and cobs you would have to completely redesign the machinery used to harvest corn, as those are presently pulverized to return to the soil to replenish the nutrients that gradually leech out of it.......simply not practical.... Right, it is not practicle, which is why we shouldn't be doing it.

next, there is no "net increase" in the use of fossil fuel, as ethanol can be produced using electricity which can be generated from a number of sources and is very seldom generated from fuel which needs to be imported into the country.....even the fuel used on farms to operate machinery is primarily biodiesel at present....Just because it can be doesn't mean it is. By the way, biodiesel is primarily diesel, with from 1-20% vegatable oil added. The best case is 20%, still burning a lot of diesel. Additonaly, 50% of electricity generated in this county is from coal which is a fossil fuel.

finally, there is no significant effect of corn ethanol production on food......most American corn is used as animal feed.....and since ethanol production uses only the sugars in corn, which cattle cannot digest anyway, the brewer's mash that is a by product is actually a preferred cattle feed over raw ground corn..... The animals fed with corn are our food, so that statement makes little sense.

the next most significant use of American corn is corn syrup.....the net result of tripling the cost of corn is a three cent increase in your next can of Coke.....Trippling the cost of food to someone already starving means they can only aford 1/3 as much

there is no significant use of American corn to feed starving third world countries......for one thing, the cost of transporting it is too high, for another half the third world countries won't permit it to be imported because we use genetically altered seeds......
Click to expand...
Far from true, the U.S. produces half the food consumed around the world, all of it is shipped, and it is first weorld countries that banned G.M. food not third world counties.

Most of my reply is in your post above, I tried to make it a different font, anyone want to help me figure out how to change fonts?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
if you were stupid enough to use ethanol in a vehicle that couldn't handle it why should we pity you?......do you think antique car owners didn't have to deal with the same issue with unleaded fuels?......
Click to expand...

But I can and do buy a product that replaces the lead. And there is a product that prevents the fuel from separating. However, the gasket deterioration is another problem.

On the other hand I could restrict my driving to roads by the water and stop at marinas for gas which is ethanol-free or change the gaskets.
 
Dune said:
First, wood alcohol is methanol.
Second, the reason Brazil's program works is because the entire plant is used for fuel, unlike here, where just the kernals are used. This is just an overpriced farm subsidy which has dramaticaly increased world wide starvation.
Third, sorry, no pattern detectable so far, except Neocon greed and stupidity.
Click to expand...
:lies:



Yeah....everyone knows that Conservative Republicans are the driving force behind the use of energy and fuel from renewable sources....
:palm::palm::palm::palm::palm::palm:[/sarcasm]
 
PostmodernProphet said:
yes....or change the gaskets......if you want to drive an antique, take care of it....don't expect the world to remain static for your benefit.....
Click to expand...
Anyone who's driving a classic or antique car and hasn't torn the engine down to replace the cork gaskets is dealing with a huge leaker anyway. :palm:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top