Attack on gun rights begin anew~

USFREEDOM911 said:
After all your ranting, the gist of your disagreement finally surfaces.

Where in the hell did I ever mention a US Military Unit?
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An apparently erroneous assumption based on your (also erroneous) claims that counter sniper weapons are not abundant.

So what non-military targets are you talking about engaging from far far away?

(You WERE asked to clarify your scenario. If you did not respond, don't blame others for having to make assumptions.)
 
Good Luck said:
An apparently erroneous assumption based on your (also erroneous) claims that counter sniper weapons are not abundant.

So what non-military targets are you talking about engaging from far far away?

(You WERE asked to clarify your scenario. If you did not respond, don't blame others for having to make assumptions.)
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I was jumping ahead where there is no longer an organized military and things have denigrated to "armed militias".

You made the "assumption", long before you asked for any clarification.
 
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USFREEDOM911 said:
I was jumping ahead where there is no longer an organized military and things have denigrated to "armed militias".

You made the "assumption", long before you asked for any clarification.
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So, assuming we do reach the situation of revolution/collapse, what are your plans for you and your long range 7.62X54R BEFORE we get to your hypothetical "nothing much left over" point?
 
Good Luck said:
True. Everyone has their favorites.

Out of curiosity, what ammo do your use for 7.62X54R?
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Handloads. Lapua cases and either 150 or 180 gr bullets, depending on application. My PSL (a Dragunov lookalike if you're unaware) loves 203 gr bullets, but it isn't rated to shoot anything heavier than 150s. Also, I still have around....9000 rounds of surplus laying about. My Mosins and my PSL feed those just nicely.
 
Old Fezzywig said:
Handloads. Lapua cases and either 150 or 180 gr bullets, depending on application. My PSL (a Dragunov lookalike if you're unaware) loves 203 gr bullets, but it isn't rated to shoot anything heavier than 150s. Also, I still have around....9000 rounds of surplus laying about. My Mosins and my PSL feed those just nicely.
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Got a PSL myself. Fun as hell to shoot. Definitely not a 1000 meter rifle, though, regardless of ammo. Also have an old Mosin Nagant - also fun as hell to shoot, if you don't mind a sore shoulder.

You aren't gonna get 1000 meter accuracy out of surplus ammo, either, whatever you shoot it out of.

OTOH, I don't have 1000 meter ability either, even with a qualified 1000 meter .308 sniper rifle. I can take deer with a head shot consistently out to about 500 meters and after that I need to shift to body shots (IF I take the shot at all, which I usually don't) But 1000 meters? My groupings at that range would yield more than 80% misses at a man-size target.
 
Good Luck said:
So, assuming we do reach the situation of revolution/collapse, what are your plans for you and your long range 7.62X54R BEFORE we get to your hypothetical "nothing much left over" point?
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What is your problem, lately?
Are you feeling that you need acknowledgement or something?

You act like your assertions are the only one that can be correct.
I"m beginning to think that Mojo is related to you.
 
Good Luck said:
Got a PSL myself. Fun as hell to shoot. Definitely not a 1000 meter rifle, though, regardless of ammo. Also have an old Mosin Nagant - also fun as hell to shoot, if you don't mind a sore shoulder.

You aren't gonna get 1000 meter accuracy out of surplus ammo, either, whatever you shoot it out of.

OTOH, I don't have 1000 meter ability either, even with a qualified 1000 meter .308 sniper rifle. I can take deer with a head shot consistently out to about 500 meters and after that I need to shift to body shots (IF I take the shot at all, which I usually don't) But 1000 meters? My groupings at that range would yield more than 80% misses at a man-size target.
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I've seen PSLs that can do 1000 yards. By and large they can't but there are specific examples that can. Mine certainly can't though. 700 is about the farthest I would take it out to.

I'm a Mosin collector myself, so a sore shoulder is almost always around. But well worth it.
 
Old Fezzywig said:
I've seen PSLs that can do 1000 yards. By and large they can't but there are specific examples that can. Mine certainly can't though. 700 is about the farthest I would take it out to.

I'm a Mosin collector myself, so a sore shoulder is almost always around. But well worth it.
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I have never seen an unmodified PSL that had the MOA to make a 1000 meter rifle, but I imagine with enough tweaking one could get there. The Dragunov, on which the PSL is modeled, can certainly come close without a lot of tweaking. Then again, you can't get a Dragunov for under $2K these days. Makes me wonder, would it be cheaper to modify my PSL to Dragunov standards, or just bite the pricing bullet and get the Dragunov itself?
 
Mojo said:
Does the Second Amendment's language allow the government to restrict citizens from owning any type of arms?
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no. 'shall not be infringed' means exactly that.

Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
— Tench Coxe, 1788.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
this law as originally written will not grandfather in ones already owned.
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They'll never get a confiscatory law passed - not even if they'd tried when they had 60 seats in the Senate. The backlash would put them in a hole for the 2012 elections that would make 2010 look like a DNC victory. I seriously doubt they could even go so far as to make private sale of existing mags illegal, let alone making mere possession illegal.
 
Good Luck said:
I have never seen an unmodified PSL that had the MOA to make a 1000 meter rifle, but I imagine with enough tweaking one could get there. The Dragunov, on which the PSL is modeled, can certainly come close without a lot of tweaking. Then again, you can't get a Dragunov for under $2K these days. Makes me wonder, would it be cheaper to modify my PSL to Dragunov standards, or just bite the pricing bullet and get the Dragunov itself?
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From my understand they were untweaked, but that is easily claimed and hard to determine without firing it myself. Also I've never seen a Dragunov going for less than $4,000 these days. But from what I've heard their owners report similar performance to the PSL.
 
Old Fezzywig said:
From my understand they were untweaked, but that is easily claimed and hard to determine without firing it myself. Also I've never seen a Dragunov going for less than $4,000 these days. But from what I've heard their owners report similar performance to the PSL.
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We've heard from different sources then, because I have heard from those who have both that PSLs (untweaked) are invariably inferior in performance to the Russian made Dragunov - especially in trigger group. How much depends on where the PSL comes from. Polish are decent while Romanian are not so much.

All PSLs, however, are still reliable 500-700 meter rifles, which is all I need at my age. Was the day, when in my 20s-30s, I could push performance of a 1000 meter rifle. No longer though. If nothing else, chronic dry eye prevents me from seeing as clearly as is needed, even through a good scope.
 
Good Luck said:
We've heard from different sources then, because I have heard from those who have both that PSLs (untweaked) are invariably inferior in performance to the Russian made Dragunov - especially in trigger group. How much depends on where the PSL comes from. Polish are decent while Romanian are not so much.

All PSLs, however, are still reliable 500-700 meter rifles, which is all I need at my age. Was the day, when in my 20s-30s, I could push performance of a 1000 meter rifle. No longer though. If nothing else, chronic dry eye prevents me from seeing as clearly as is needed, even through a good scope.
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Very true. I'm speaking on behalf of 3rd generation PSLs. I know that there are a large variety of them that do not match up quality wise, so it's not entirely a fair comparison.

And I can sympathize about the eyes. I'm almost legally blind without glasses.
 
Old Fezzywig said:
Very true. I'm speaking on behalf of 3rd generation PSLs. I know that there are a large variety of them that do not match up quality wise, so it's not entirely a fair comparison.

And I can sympathize about the eyes. I'm almost legally blind without glasses.
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Have you ever seen PSL mags larger than 10 rounds? I haven't shopped around that much, but when I Google shop, its seems 10s, or the occasional "hunting" 5 round, are all that are out there.
 
Old Fezzywig said:
No I have not. All I ever find are 10 rounders of various makes.
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I wonder if there would be a market for larger mags: 20s, or even 30s? While the designed role of the PSL (LR sniper) does not need high cap mags, I'd bet there are those who would want them anyway - the same types that buy 50 & 75 round drums for their AK variants.
 
Good Luck said:
I wonder if there would be a market for larger mags: 20s, or even 30s? While the designed role of the PSL (LR sniper) does not need high cap mags, I'd bet there are those who would want them anyway - the same types that buy 50 & 75 round drums for their AK variants.
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Atlantic Firearms makes a newer AK type in the 54R that would be perfect for such things.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct886.aspx

But beyond that I don't see much of a market.
 
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