Whos counting.....

isn't that what camp david was made for? presidential vacations?

i don't think it was made solely for vacations...more of a retreat where the president can work and take a break

i'm pretty sure the modern president is 24/7 on call...for example, i am near positive obama is not truly taking a two week vacation from work like most people, i have no doubt he is involved in briefings, meetings, decisions etc....probably every day
 
fyi GL...



this is onceler favorite accusation to those who lean right on this board, he has no meaning coming from him he spouts it for everyone on the right and is truly a projection....he will raretly ever call the left out until he shown his hypocrisy...maybe 1% he does on his own, but the rest is people like myself, damo etc....calling him out on his partisan hackery

That's silly. You really do project a lot. You realize that most of your posts have to do with "they said this about Bush...where are they now?" or other right-wing oriented themes. You never say anything at all about the partisan BS that people like bravo & ID spew. You're a total right-winger, and I think you know it; you make a big deal about posters not taking the left "to task" for hackery, but I rarely, if ever, see it out of you.

You're a massive, massive hypocrite, but I do understand that you don't see this. Hypocrites rarely do.

And posters like you & GL see what you want to see in me; that's fine. Like I said, it's pretty much 100% projection. Some of the more spirited debates I've had on this board have been with my alleged "side," on SS, healthcare, the wars, whatever. The lefties you can't stand have disowned me for some of those positions; Watermark has wished me dead.

I don't see anything similar about you from "your side." So stop projecting yourself all over the place, and interjecting yourself on threads like this because you think you've found a kindred spirit. You're really a hack's hack; there is nothing about you that is objective.
 
Actually, I have seen a lot of your posts. I guess I missed the ones where you were substantially critical of Obama. But I do see a hell of a lot more hypocrisy and double standards coming from you and people like evince, bfgrn, mott-the-hoople, taichiliberal, and others than I have seen coming from right wing pundits. For instance, many of those who are associated with the right have been consistent on the topic of federal spending: they hated Bush for it, they hate Obama for it more because so far Obama is spending more. What have YOU had to say about it?

What have you seen from me? I take supposed right wingers to task when they spout bullshit as much as people like you. I have (recently) given up on Dixie, whose ignorance is only surpassed by his delusion of self importance - but I gave it a try. I am currently debating Yurt on the constitutionality of DUI checkpoints and what it implies when our own SCOTUS tells us they are a violation, but not a BIG enough violation to outweight the "needs of society". Have you EVER seen me make a generic POSITIVE remark about Bush?

Oooooooh....DUI! Yeah, you're really taking on "the right."

The reason you see more hypocrisy from the left is because you're on the right. That's just the way it is. There is nothing inherent about people on the left that makes them more hypocritical.

I mean, look at this; we're debating this on a thread with an OP of utter partisan ridiculousness, and instead of taking that ridiculousness to task, you chime in to expand the argument. Frankly, it's embarassing, if you're trying to come off as someone who is equallly critical of "both sides." You're not, at all.
 
I mean, look at this; we're debating this on a thread with an OP of utter partisan ridiculousness, and instead of taking that ridiculousness to task, you chime in to expand the argument. Frankly, it's embarassing, if you're trying to come off as someone who is equallly critical of "both sides." You're not, at all.
You see it as partisan ridiculousness. That is because you are on the left, therefore you are willing to not notice the "little" things the left does. Other issues are more important. Little issues are, I guess, not worth mentioning. (unless the little issues come from Bush, of course, because when it is BUSH in action, there ARE no little issues.)

I see it as damned poor leadership, at a time when leadership is a huge factor in where we head the next couple years. For me, that is an issue worth noting. We are at a critical time when leadership is what people are looking for to give them some confidence in the future. Obama is not giving us that leadership, so people remain unsure, and that effects the economy in a negative way. And this particular event is a glaring example why Obama shows poor leadership.

And did I say I was EQUALLY critical of both sides? Why would I be EQUALLY critical when I, quite obviously, agree with more things coming from the right than the left? You try to paint me as a hypocrite, and come off as an idiot.

I do call out politicians for the same types of actions, regardless of their political philosophy. I have been consistently critical of the Patriot Act and the FISA bill as I have been of the new airport security procedures - all of which are a serious blow to the 4th Amendment. Go ahead and look it up. Can you say the same? Or are you among those who denounced Bush for FISA, but give Obama a pass on his stance on highly invasive airport security being "necessary", so our 4th Amendment protections don't apply?

Not that it matters. You see what you want to see, and accuse others of the same. And call it projection. LOL Talk about pots and kettles.
 
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QUOTE=Onceler;749858]That's silly. You really do project a lot. You realize that most of your posts have to do with "they said this about Bush...where are they now?" or other right-wing oriented themes. You never say anything at all about the partisan BS that people like bravo & ID spew. You're a total right-winger, and I think you know it; you make a big deal about posters not taking the left "to task" for hackery, but I rarely, if ever, see it out of you.

i don't project, at all. and you're outright lying i don't call out bravo et al..."never".....i could easily search that and show you're a liar, thus once again projecting your bs onto me.....its pathetic onceler


You're a massive, massive hypocrite, but I do understand that you don't see this. Hypocrites rarely do.

more projections, you're a broken record

And posters like you & GL see what you want to see in me; that's fine. Like I said, it's pretty much 100% projection. Some of the more spirited debates I've had on this board have been with my alleged "side," on SS, healthcare, the wars, whatever. The lefties you can't stand have disowned me for some of those positions; Watermark has wished me dead.

oooooooh, you're a non partisan because watermark wished you dead, LMAO...dixie thinks i'm a liberal.....bravo thinks i'm an idiot....GL is currently debating against me.....but you have watermark....do you realize how stupid you look trying to actually argue this? really, funniest post all year....watermark wants me dead, therefore i must not be a blind far left liberal hack....LOOOOOL

I don't see anything similar about you from "your side." So stop projecting yourself all over the place, and interjecting yourself on threads like this because you think you've found a kindred spirit. You're really a hack's hack; there is nothing about you that is objective.

thats because you see only what you want to see. i say obama is a us citizen born in hawaii and eligible to serve as president -- you see i'm a birther...

you should really think 5 times slowly before you call anyone a hack....you're a joke onceler....you used to be somewhat decent, but lately, you're a joke 99% of time....i wish you would go back to debates instead of this silliness

:(
 
i don't project, at all. and you're outright lying i don't call out bravo et al..."never".....i could easily search that and show you're a liar, thus once again projecting your bs onto me.....its pathetic onceler




more projections, you're a broken record



oooooooh, you're a non partisan because watermark wished you dead, LMAO...dixie thinks i'm a liberal.....bravo thinks i'm an idiot....GL is currently debating against me.....but you have watermark....do you realize how stupid you look trying to actually argue this? really, funniest post all year....watermark wants me dead, therefore i must not be a blind far left liberal hack....LOOOOOL



thats because you see only what you want to see. i say obama is a us citizen born in hawaii and eligible to serve as president -- you see i'm a birther...

you should really think 5 times slowly before you call anyone a hack....you're a joke onceler....you used to be somewhat decent, but lately, you're a joke 99% of time....i wish you would go back to debates instead of this silliness

:(

Nah; I'm not. I see you have the same conversation w/ everyone on the left.

You're just a hack, and you project, all of the time.
 
You see it as partisan ridiculousness. That is because you are on the left, therefore you are willing to not notice the "little" things the left does. Other issues are more important. Little issues are, I guess, not worth mentioning. (unless the little issues come from Bush, of course, because when it is BUSH in action, there ARE no little issues.)

I see it as damned poor leadership, at a time when leadership is a huge factor in where we head the next couple years. For me, that is an issue worth noting. We are at a critical time when leadership is what people are looking for to give them some confidence in the future. Obama is not giving us that leadership, so people remain unsure, and that effects the economy in a negative way. And this particular event is a glaring example why Obama shows poor leadership.

And did I say I was EQUALLY critical of both sides? Why would I be EQUALLY critical when I, quite obviously, agree with more things coming from the right than the left? You try to paint me as a hypocrite, and come off as an idiot.

I do call out politicians for the same types of actions, regardless of their political philosophy. I have been consistently critical of the Patriot Act and the FISA bill as I have been of the new airport security procedures - all of which are a serious blow to the 4th Amendment. Go ahead and look it up. Can you say the same? Or are you among those who denounced Bush for FISA, but give Obama a pass on his stance on highly invasive airport security being "necessary", so our 4th Amendment protections don't apply?

Not that it matters. You see what you want to see, and accuse others of the same. And call it projection. LOL Talk about pots and kettles.

It's partisan ridiculousness. It's bravo. I'm amazed that anyone came on this thread w/ anything but ridicule.

"Expensive vacations." Good lord....welcome to the Michael Savage show...
 
Oh, and Yurtsie? About the birther thing - like I said...let me know the next time I start a thread about AGW, and go on for 12 pages defending the AGW position.

And then say "Oh, I'm not really an AGW guy."

And then watch your reaction.

LOL

Hack.
 
Nah; I'm not. I see you have the same conversation w/ everyone on the left.

You're just a hack, and you project, all of the time.

Oh, and Yurtsie? About the birther thing - like I said...let me know the next time I start a thread about AGW, and go on for 12 pages defending the AGW position.

And then say "Oh, I'm not really an AGW guy."

And then watch your reaction.

LOL

Hack.

:(

oh well....happy new year onceler

:)
 
It's partisan ridiculousness. It's bravo. I'm amazed that anyone came on this thread w/ anything but ridicule.

"Expensive vacations." Good lord....welcome to the Michael Savage show...
Actually, it's "I won't say anything bad about Obama unless he REALLY screws up. And by screwing up I mean he does something not extreme leftist."

Like I explained - to me it is about leadership. When a president shows poor leadership at a time when we need strong leadership, then it affects a lot more than the direct effect - which is admittedly minimal - of an unnecessarily expensive vacation on the public teat. If you cannot see that, too bad for you.

Though I still bet you'd see it more than clearly if Bush had pulled the same stunt of renting huge expensive resorts on taxpayer money.

Bush was a poor leader, too. He made ONE strong showing to the people right after 9-11-01, but both before (which was not very long, but still long enough to see) and definitely after, he was, at best, ineffectual. And one of the reasons for that is directly related to this topic: vacations. While a president IS on the job 24/7 no matter where they are, there are times when the people need a "physical presence" from the person they chose to lead. Biking around his ranch or daddy's estate is not exactly the physical presence of a world leader we needed at the time.

The thing is, big things and big issues are what they are. But perception of leadership is not necessarily defined only by how they address the big issues - it tends to be as much, if not more, the little things that give the people a feeling about their leader. It was the little things that killed Bush's leadership image for most who were not mindless drones, and it is these little things that are tarnishing Obama's image for those who are not drones, because perception of leadership works at the subconscious. Saying one thing and doing another does a lot more for negative leadership perception than standing up with a pretty speech (written by someone else) in a major crisis does for a positive image.

Then again it is not ONLY this that gives me cause to label Obama a poor leader. They stack up. His difficulty with house democrats during this lame duck session shows an extreme lack of leadership. Good leaders, like Clinton, were not only able to get their own house in order, but get concessions from the opposition. Here, though I am personally pleased with the outcome, we see Obama as the one giving the concessions when he has a majority in both houses of congress! What the hell kind of leadership is that?
 
I'd wager plenty that you didn't think Clinton was a "good leader" while in office.

And Dems hated Clinton as much for his concessions after '94 as they do Obama for his recent concessions.

Just curious - do you think that Obama is the only one who made concessions w/ the recent deal?

I'd be interested in your answer to that. I'm kind of done w/ the vacation thing; your premise is absurd, and one reserved for extreme partisans. If you don't want to take my word for it, just check who is making a big deal about the vacations, and who isn't. Hint: you'll hear about it on Rush a lot.

Presidents take vacations; they cost money. When a President spends money on a vacation and says we need to cut the deficit, he's not saying "do as I say, not as I do." It's the equivalent of me telling my family that we need to cut household expenses, and buying a good $8 6-pack instead of the usual $5 six-pack, and someone nailing me for the outrageous "hypocrisy."

Seriously; you should hear yourself...
 
I'd wager plenty that you didn't think Clinton was a "good leader" while in office.

And Dems hated Clinton as much for his concessions after '94 as they do Obama for his recent concessions.

Just curious - do you think that Obama is the only one who made concessions w/ the recent deal?

I'd be interested in your answer to that. I'm kind of done w/ the vacation thing; your premise is absurd, and one reserved for extreme partisans. If you don't want to take my word for it, just check who is making a big deal about the vacations, and who isn't. Hint: you'll hear about it on Rush a lot.

Presidents take vacations; they cost money. When a President spends money on a vacation and says we need to cut the deficit, he's not saying "do as I say, not as I do." It's the equivalent of me telling my family that we need to cut household expenses, and buying a good $8 6-pack instead of the usual $5 six-pack, and someone nailing me for the outrageous "hypocrisy."

Seriously; you should hear yourself...
Actually, I volunteered in campaign offices for both Clinton's terms in office. Clinton made mistakes, yes. Like trying to take too much for the government out of the economic boom. Had he been more circumspect, he would have been more successful. He also made a lot of good decisions. But the biggest thing is he was a recognized leader. That is why the far right hates him to this day - his leadership abilities took the wind out of their sails and they hated that, and still do.

And I was right, wasn't I? The only things you criticize Obama for - and Clinton for that matter, was not driving hard to the far left. But I am the partisan.

You are pathetic.
 
Actually, I volunteered in campaign offices for both Clinton's terms in office. Clinton made mistakes, yes. Like trying to take too much for the government out of the economic boom. Had he been more circumspect, he would have been more successful. He also made a lot of good decisions. But the biggest thing is he was a recognized leader. That is why the far right hates him to this day - his leadership abilities took the wind out of their sails and they hated that, and still do.

And I was right, wasn't I? The only things you criticize Obama for - and Clinton for that matter, was not driving hard to the far left. But I am the partisan.

You are pathetic.

No, you weren't right. You never have been about me; I'm a moderate. I actually consider myself a fiscal conservative. I believe in a top tax rate of 33%; I believe in privatizing social security. I have advocated smaller gov't, big budget cuts, and I was against the healthcare package.

In your world, I'm the biggest leftie on the board, which is really weird. I'm not sure what you read, or how you interpret it. I think you think everyone who doesn't think like you is a "leftie drone."

I'm glad I'm able to actually think more clearly than that, and see the world in a way that isn't so simplistic & narrow.
 
You haven't a clue what leadership is. Leadership in a democratic type society IS symbolism - pure and simple. This isn't the days when the leader became so due to a concrete difference: because he was the strongest, or proved himself to be the wisest, or anything like that. There is no objective measure of democratic leadership. Electability is what gains the White House, not leadership. Bush proved that one in a big way.

It is symbolism that creates the image of a leader in all modern societies. In non-democratic type societies, their leaders invariably go to great efforts to bolster their image as the leader, through symbols such as statues, giant bill boards, etc. The former USSR leaders would have great military parades, as if they had anything directly to do with the appearance and effectiveness of the military. But it didn't matter because the SYMBOL was there to create the image of a great leader.

And one of the BIGGEST symbols in our society is that their actions match their words. "Do as I say, not as I do" is a poor style of leadership. What do you think is meant by "a leader leads by example?" In the military, where the hierarchy of leadership is as important as the bread we eat and the rifles we fire, leadership by example is the way of life. A ranking officer who shows up in a combat zone in clean, pressed dress uniform with shiny shoes for a brief speech is not viewed well by the soldiers, and as a result the leadership image suffers - and the effectiveness of that section of the military as a whole is diminished. However, when they show up in battle fatigues and dusty boots, "observe" the soldiers by crawling into their fox holes and talking with them, THAT is a leader who understands the importance of the leader image. His presence is littel more than a symbol, because his knowledge of the war comes from other means. But the symbol, that he is just, in the end, another fox-hole mudfoot is IMPORTANT. He is respected, and his unit will be the better for it.

But, in this (and other) cases, Obama is NOT leading by example, is he? Telling people that they need to pay more taxes (at least some of them) to reduce the deficit, then turning around and INCREASING the deficit - however slightly - with unnecessarily high expenses for his vacation is NOT actions which fit his words. THAT is a poor leader, no matter HOW you want to gloss it over with "symbols never matter much to me".

Symbolism

Tuesday September 11, 2001

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0:00 - "A second plane hit the second tower," he whispered into the president's right ear. "America is under attack."
As Americans Leap to Their Deaths from the Twin Towers, George W. Bush Sat Clueless in a Florida Classroom, Endangering the Lives of the Children Around Him, Until His Handlers Could Figure Out What to Do With Him

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1:00

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2:00

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3:00

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4:00

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5:00



Monday, August 29, 2005

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Monday, August 29, 2005

John McCain and George W. Bush ate cake to celebrate McCain’s 69th birthday. At that very moment hurricane Katrina was bringing devastation to the gulf coast.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005

President George W. Bush showing the nation that not even a major city being entirely submerged can prevent him from getting on with his life. And yes, this photo was taken Tuesday.

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No, you weren't right. You never have been about me; I'm a moderate. I actually consider myself a fiscal conservative. I believe in a top tax rate of 33%; I believe in privatizing social security. I have advocated smaller gov't, big budget cuts, and I was against the healthcare package.

In your world, I'm the biggest leftie on the board, which is really weird. I'm not sure what you read, or how you interpret it. I think you think everyone who doesn't think like you is a "leftie drone."

I'm glad I'm able to actually think more clearly than that, and see the world in a way that isn't so simplistic & narrow.

:lol:

its so funny to see you squirm when others call you out on your partisanship....its not just one person onceler....think about it next time before you go down your usual route of trying to call out others for being a blind partisan or whatever else insults you think will stick
 
Yeah - you made a wonderful effort to take the "high road."

A poster that is completely devoid of self-awareness...

i did, for weeks....i continually challenged you to drop the insults and debate....you repeatedly refused, i even made a thread for a one on one debate with no insults, just pure discussion...and what did you do, you came into that thread, which i created due to your petition of the thread topic....and what did you do....oh yeah, you ran away from debate and insulted instead

bet you thought that would be forgotten....you had your chance, you blew it and everyone saw it and you were even called out by posters like capt, who never takes a side.....think about that
 
i did, for weeks....i continually challenged you to drop the insults and debate....you repeatedly refused, i even made a thread for a one on one debate with no insults, just pure discussion...and what did you do, you came into that thread, which i created due to your petition of the thread topic....and what did you do....oh yeah, you ran away from debate and insulted instead

bet you thought that would be forgotten....you had your chance, you blew it and everyone saw it and you were even called out by posters like capt, who never takes a side.....think about that

Good lord - what in inflated, unrealistic sense of yourself you have.

All you do is insult & spew BS while you lie and show everyone what an insufferable hack you are. "Where are all of the Bush bashers now?" "Where are all of the leftie hacks now?"

LOL LOL LOL What an entertaining poster to have on the board - gotta give you that much....
 
"Everyone saw it" - I'm still laughing. What an overblown fool you are!

If ever we needed confirmation that rep points were you world. You just keep offering up more solid proof, and for that, I thank you....
 
the only fool here is you onceler...no one said anything about rep but you....clearly you're still obsessed over rep points

you know what they say about projection....
 
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