I find Rubio impressive

Bfgrn said:
Why do you want to replace the president we have? He has done about as good as any one man could do, considering his own party is so inclusive he has Democrats that vote with Republicans, and an opposition party that is out to destroy him, even if it takes the country with it.

Do you really want MORE conservatives on the Supreme Court? Citizens United v. FEC makes Dred Scott v. Sandford look like a parking ticket. It is the most egregious and destructive ruling in history. It will turn America into another Soviet Union with a Politburo and an environmental landscape that will resemble a nuclear explosion.
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Someone will oppose "the president we have" in 2012.

I would welcome - as should you, IMHO - all strong, credible candidates.

Perhaps a better question would be...why would you condemn a man who you apparently dislike solely because of his party affiliation?

As to the rest of your question, I seem to recall another president or two who was vigorously vilified by an opposition party "out to destroy him".

That's called "politics".
 
Zurt said:
Someone will oppose "the president we have" in 2012.

I would welcome - as should you, IMHO - all strong, credible candidates.

Perhaps a better question would be...why would you condemn a man who you apparently dislike solely because of his party affiliation?

As to the rest of your question, I seem to recall another president or two who was vigorously vilified by an opposition party "out to destroy him".

That's called "politics".
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Zurt, what Republicans have been doing since Obama took office is not 'politics', it borders on treason. Democrats opposed Bush and his policies, but they were always a loyal opposition and minority. Which means they put the American people ahead of their party. Republicans made a collective decision to do whatever it takes to destroy Obama and the Democrats even if the country was destroyed with them.

I explained how the GOP works today. Do you need some Republicans to be the ones to tell you? How far back do you want to go? Barry Goldwater was very disturbed at where the party had gone before his death, he had planned to co-author a book on the subject with former Nixon aide John Dean. Dean's book, Conservative Without Conscience was the result of numerous conversations he had with Goldwater and Dean has written numerous other books and op-ed pieces on how authoritarians have taken over the party. He said we were very close to fascism during the GW Bush administration. Victor Gold, George H. W. Bush's speechwriter and former Goldwater aide in the '60's wrote a scathing book on the GOP.

Invasion of the Party Snatchers How the Holy Rollers and the Neocons Destroyed the GOP

How about someone more recent, like former GW Bush speechwriter David Frum?

On ABC's Nightline; Frum: "Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us and now we're discovering we work for Fox. And this balance here has been completely reversed. The thing that sustains a strong Fox network is the thing that undermines a strong Republican party."

Or the article Frum wrote that got him fired from his position at the right wing think tank, the American Enterprise Institute.

David Frum - Waterloo

March 21st, 2010

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:

(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.

So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson:

A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.

At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother?

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Whether it's McCain being force to take Palin as VP or Frum being fired for revealing the truth; Republicans INCLUDING Rubio must stay in line, parrot the group speak or be ostracized and challenged in primaries by candidates that will goose step by Grover Norquist's 'Club for Growth'

If your ideal model of America is something along the lines of Germany in the late 30's or the Soviet Union in the '50's then today's GOP is perfect for you, no matter who is at the top of the ticket.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Barry Goldwater
 
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I'm confident that many would disagree with your assesment of some Democrat's actions toward Mr. Bush.

Be that as it may, I respect your view.

I will continue to judge candidates by their words and deeds, not their party affiliation.
 
Zurt said:
I'm confident that many would disagree with your assesment of some Democrat's actions toward Mr. Bush.

Be that as it may, I respect your view.

I will continue to judge candidates by their words and deeds, not their party affiliation.
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Even David Frum exonerates Democrats from being extreme obstructionists.

"At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994."

IMO you are making a HUGE mistake to not consider party affiliation. It was only last summer Grover Norquist was behind a GOP 'Purity test' that Reagan was too far left to pass.

Grover Norquist wants to drown governemnt in a bathtub, the problem is human beings will drown with it. Norquist infamously said: "We're going to crush labor as a political entity"

I got news for you Zurt, that is you and me he wants to crush.
 
Bfgrn said:
Even David Frum exonerates Democrats from being extreme obstructionists.

"At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994."

IMO you are making a HUGE mistake to not consider party affiliation. It was only last summer Grover Norquist was behind a GOP 'Purity test' that Reagan was too far left to pass.

Grover Norquist wants to drown governemnt in a bathtub, the problem is human beings will drown with it. Norquist infamously said: "We're going to crush labor as a political entity"

I got news for you Zurt, that is you and me he wants to crush.
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Damn, listening to you you would think Grover Norquist ran the world.
 
cawacko said:
Damn, listening to you you would think Grover Norquist ran the world.
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Grover Glenn Norquist (born Oct. 19, 1956) is a well-connected Republican activist with close ties to business and the media.

He is one of the "Gang of Five" in Nina Easton's 2000 book by that name, giving the history of leaders of the modern conservative movement. He has been described as "a thumb-in-the-eye radical rightist" (The Nation), and "Tom Paine crossed with Lee Atwater plus just a soupcon of Madame Defarge" (P.J. O'Rourke).

Norquist is famous for his widely quoted comment that he wants to shrink government "down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub." Norquist largely rejects relativism and is comfortable assigning the labels of "good" and "bad". The pledge of "no new taxes" that so many Republican legislators signed was his project. He holds regular meetings for conservative leaders in which strategy is discussed. He once commented, "We play for keeps; they play for lunch."

"Adept at media appearances, Norquist writes a monthly politics column for the American Spectator magazine, and frequently speaks at regional and state think tanks of the movement. He is also well connected with large scale U.S. business interests, having served as economist and chief speech writer for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce (1983-1984)."

Shortly after Bill Clinton was elected president of the United States in 1992, Norquist began hosting a weekly get-together of conservatives in his Washington office to coordinate activities and strategy. "We were sort of like the Mensheviks after the Russian Revolution," recalls Marshall Wittmann, who attended the first meeting as a representative of the Christian Coalition.

The "Wednesday Meeting" of Norquist's Leave Us Alone Coalition has become an important hub of conservative political organizing. President Bush began sending a representative to the Wednesday Meeting even before he formally announced his candidacy for president. "Now a White House aide attends each week," reported USA Today in June 2001. "Vice President Cheney sends his own representative. So do GOP congressional leaders, right-leaning think tanks, conservative advocacy groups and some like-minded K Street lobbyists. The meeting has been valuable to the White House because it is the political equivalent of one-stop shopping. By making a single pitch, the administration can generate pressure on members of Congress, calls to radio talk shows and political buzz from dozens of grassroots organizations. It also enables the White House to hear conservatives vent in private -- and to respond -- before complaints fester.

Grover Norquist the lobbyist

Foreign Agent lobbying disclosures filed with the U.S. Department of Justice reveal that Norquist has worked for the Government of Seychelles and the Angolan UNITA.

Norquist earned $30,000 in the six months to the end of March 1997 working for the National Union for the Total Independence of Angola "to strengthen the ties between the United States and Angola. This was accomplished through personal meetings, telephone calls, and letters directed to various U.S. Government officials".

Subsequent returns stated that "the registrant contacted members of Congress and their staff to discuss the ongoing events surrounding the Angolan peace process" but no additional payments were reported.

Norquist also represented the Republic of the Seychelles Islands, President France Albert Rene in 1997 and 1998. In the six month period ending March 31,1997 Norquists return states that he earned $40,000 for contacting "U.S. Government officials on behalf of the foreign principal in order to promote and strengthen ties between the U.S. and Seychelles, with specific regard to U.S. military activities in the Indian Ocean."

The next return stated that he earned $50,000 over six months for contacting "members of Congress and their staff to discuss the strategic relationship between the U.S. and the foreign principal and the possibility of increasing U.S. visibility in the Seychelles."

Norquist continued to represent the Seychelles until 1999.

Abramoff ties—money laundering allegations

The Associated Press published a story on June 22, 2006, which described Americans for Tax Reform as being used as an obfuscating conduit to Ralph Reed's receiving over one million dollars from a Jack Abramoff client, The Mississippi Choctaws, to keep other casinos from opening as competitors.

Reed, who founded the Christian Coalition, would not have been able to transparently receive these funds directly from the Choctaw without alienating his religious base.

"In Jack Abramoff's world, prominent Washington tax-cut advocate Grover Norquist was a godsend.

"Moving money from a casino-operating Indian tribe to Ralph Reed, the Christian Coalition founder and professed gambling opponent, was a problem. Lobbyist Abramoff turned to his longtime friend Norquist, apparently to provide a buffer for Reed.

"The result, according to evidence gathered by the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, was that Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform became a conduit for more than a million dollars from the Mississippi Choctaw to Reed's operation, while Norquist, a close White House ally, took a cut.

"Without citing any specific group, the Senate panel found numerous instances of nonprofit organizations that appeared to be involved in activities unrelated to their mission as described to the Internal Revenue Service."
sourcewatch

Norquist was instrumental in securing early support for then Texas Governor George W. Bush, acting as his unofficial liaison to the conservative movement. After Bush's first election, Norquist was a key figure involved in crafting Bush's tax cuts. The Wall Street Journal's John Fund dubbed him "the Grand Central Station" of conservatism and told The Nation: "It's not disputable" that Norquist was the key to the Bush campaign's surprising level of support from movement conservatives in 2000.

Working with eventual Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, Norquist was one of the co-authors of the 1994 Contract with America, and helped to rally grassroots efforts, which he later chronicled in his book Rock the House. Norquist also served as a campaign staff member on the 1988, 1992 and 1996 Republican Platform Committees.
wiki

The Soul of the New Machine

As national ward boss for the right, Grover Norquist has gone a long way toward demolishing the old Democratic agenda. And he isn't done yet.

— By Michael Scherer
 
Ok, I know who Norquist is. I don't need a history report on him. But showing his biography doesn't change the fact that you make it look like he runs the world.
 
Rubio could be what the GOP needs.

It's a fact that Hispanic voters are becoming crucial to any candidate's election hopes.

Unfortunately, the Republican-Tea Party alliance has exacerbated the right's reputation for xenophobia and nativism.
 
cawacko said:
Ok, I know who Norquist is. I don't need a history report on him. But showing his biography doesn't change the fact that you make it look like he runs the world.
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cawacko, Alexander Hamilton said: "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything."

Norquist and conservatives who dominated the last 30+ years of politics and policy have gone a long way toward demolishing what the Democratic/liberal era accomplished from the New Deal through the Great Society. That era saw the greatest wealth creation in history, and everyone benefited. It was also the era where the most robust and successful middle class was created.

Where are we today? The middle class is drowning in debt, and there are not enough jobs for people that want to work. 4 out of 5 people that are unemployed are shit out of luck. And what jobs are available will be stuck in a 'buyer's' market for employers for a decade. There is no leverage for an American seeking work when 4 people are standing behind them willing to work for less.

If eliminating government was the cures to our problems, I'd be first in line calling for it. But it's not. This economic crisis was not brought about by too much government, it was brought about by too little government oversight and regulatory control of banks and corporations.

In 1968 there were a few hundred lobbyists in Washington. Today there are 35,000. Corporations have taken over our government. Regulations now are written BY corporations to protect them, not the people. It is called regulatory capture. Credit card applications used to be one or two pages. Now that corporations have been able to capture that regulation process, corporate lawyers have re-written lending rules. We now have 30 some page contracts that swindle citizens and families when they sign the contract. It has sent millions of families into bankruptcy. More children in America have parent that have gone through bankruptcy than have gone through a divorce! No working class family can afford to have a lawyer on retainer who is knowledgeable on corporate law. The push over the last few decades for 'tort' reform is not to reduce insurance premiums, it is a push by corporate lawyers and the Chamber of Commerce to take doctors and hospitals off the hook when the harm people through their negligence.

Let's take health care, because it is still fresh in people's minds. Norquist had a BIG hand in undermining reform over the years. He was one on the key figures in destroying reform back in 1993-4. Norquist doesn't represent the interests of middle class Americans. He represents the interests of insurance corporations and hides behind the 'free market' mantra. It is bullshit.

Please watch this interview. The man's name is Wendell Potter. He spent 15 years as a high paid executive at CIGNA, one of the largest health insurance corporations in America. Potter testified before Congress during the health care debate. But the so called liberal media gave his testimony no coverage.

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients

If you watch this interview and don't come away with a totally different understanding of what needs to be done to secure affordable health care for We, the People, I will be shocked.
 
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