Things are bad. What's the solution?

Damn Yankee said:
4. If its not economically viable for farming food crops then what makes you think it would be economically viable for farming crops? :confused:
8. Yes this is Mountain Electric Co-op that buys power wholesale from TVA and distributes it in the Appalachian Mountain communities. Because of the long routes over rugged terrain with few customers it's expensive to distribute electricity there. (At my Valley home with Duke Energy I pay 7 cents.) I already said that I am there about 60 days/ year so it will pay me back for the remaining 300 or so. Assuming your 4 year calculation is off by a factor of two, and 8 year payback ain't bad for a system designed to last 20 years. I'll install this on the upper roof, above the tallest tree, so the panels will stay clean. They'll be buried in snow for maybe 4 to 6 weeks at most.
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4: Can you grow peaches in Montana? No.

Not all areas or types of soil are conducive to food crops without massive expense in modifying the soil, building irrigation systems, or fixing any of a possible thousand reasons an area isn't good for food production. Yet it's not like these areas are devoid of plant life. There are millions of plants which are not fit for human consumption, nor even as animal feed. Some of those grow quite well naturally in areas where food crops do not grow well or economically. There are many of those plants which can be processed for their natural plant oils, which in turn can be turned into bio diesel.


8: You have fun with your solar panel. But when it takes a minimum of 4 years out of a 20 year life span to pay for 10% of its cost, that is not exactly a positive comment on the economic efficiency of solar. IF you are extremely lucky and diligent, YOU could possibly get your money back out of the system, but ONLY due to the inflated buy back mandates. As for the total price, it will NEVER be able to pay for itself, making small solar electric systems a STUPID method of shifting our energy economy away from fossil fuels.

And you can place it twice as high as the tallest tree, the wind will still blow leaves and dust all over it, reducing the output, which increases the amount of time it will take for the panel to pay you back. If you want to investigate solar power as an energy alternative, look into passive solar. You can MAKE decent passive solar panels out of scrap. In a warmer area like yours, you can heat most, if not all, of your hot water needs with passive solar, with only a couple hundred dollars investment. THAT will pay you back big time.

But the bottom line is small, and even medium sized solar electric systems are horrendously cost inefficient, and it is assinine beyond comprehension to support government subsidy - by any method - of such systems.
 
Good Luck said:
4: Can you grow peaches in Montana? No.

Not all areas or types of soil are conducive to food crops without massive expense in modifying the soil, building irrigation systems, or fixing any of a possible thousand reasons an area isn't good for food production. Yet it's not like these areas are devoid of plant life. There are millions of plants which are not fit for human consumption, nor even as animal feed. Some of those grow quite well naturally in areas where food crops do not grow well or economically. There are many of those plants which can be processed for their natural plant oils, which in turn can be turned into bio diesel.


8: You have fun with your solar panel. But when it takes a minimum of 4 years out of a 20 year life span to pay for 10% of its cost, that is not exactly a positive comment on the economic efficiency of solar. IF you are extremely lucky and diligent, YOU could possibly get your money back out of the system, but ONLY due to the inflated buy back mandates. As for the total price, it will NEVER be able to pay for itself, making small solar electric systems a STUPID method of shifting our energy economy away from fossil fuels.

And you can place it twice as high as the tallest tree, the wind will still blow leaves and dust all over it, reducing the output, which increases the amount of time it will take for the panel to pay you back. If you want to investigate solar power as an energy alternative, look into passive solar. You can MAKE decent passive solar panels out of scrap. In a warmer area like yours, you can heat most, if not all, of your hot water needs with passive solar, with only a couple hundred dollars investment. THAT will pay you back big time.

But the bottom line is small, and even medium sized solar electric systems are horrendously cost inefficient, and it is assinine beyond comprehension to support government subsidy - by any method - of such systems.
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4. What crops then?
8. This is a temperate rain forest. What dust? And leaves just blow on, then blow off.
 
for those who bizarrely believe green technology is "immune from outsourcing"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11553995
US launches inquiry on China green technology subsidies

US steel workers allege that China illegally backs makers of solar energy products
The US says it is investigating claims China has broken trade agreements by giving billions of dollars in subsidies to its own green energy sector.

The inquiry follows complaints by US steel workers that China had violated World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules in a bid to dominate the global market.

US Trade Representative Ron Kirk said the US hoped to ensure "a level playing field" for US manufacturers.

He pledged to pursue the case through the WTO if the claims are verified.

President Barack Obama has identified green technology development and production as a way to revive the moribund US manufacturing sector and create new jobs.

Continue reading the main story
Related stories

China warns on US currency report
China's trade surplus at $16.9bn
"Green technology will be an engine for the jobs of the future, and this administration is committed to ensuring a level playing field for American workers, businesses and green technology entrepreneurs," said Mr Kirk said in a statement announcing the investigation.

In a 5,800-page petition to the office of the trade representative, the United Steelworkers union last month accused Beijing of using subsidies, discrimination against import goods and other economic mechanisms to bolster domestic producers of advanced batteries, wind and solar energy products, clean-energy vehicles and other products.

The new trade dispute comes amid concerns in the US that China, the largest holder of US government debt, has illegally manipulated its currency to bolster exports, thereby harming US manufacturers and driving up the US trade deficit with China.

The US Treasury Department is weighing whether formally to brand China a "currency manipulator", a move that could heighten tensions between the two governments.

Meanwhile, a Chinese government spokesman on Friday warned the US not to use the weak yuan as a "scapegoat" for its own economic problems.

The US trade deficit with China was at an all-time high of $28bn (£17.43bn) in August, up 8.2%. So far this year, the trade deficit is running 20.6% higher than the 2009 pace.
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AssHatZombie said:
It's high time we say no to tiny yellow dicks in our ass and cut all trade relationships with CHina.
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And exchange them for huge, white dicks due to having to buy products made by our neighbors at twice the cost?

You're a Socialist, AssHat.

The next time you buy a product made in China at half the cost drop by your neighbor on the way home and give him the difference. That's quick and easy.

OR

Vote for a government that will extend unemployment benefits, a government that will subsidize education, a government that will get your neighbor doing something other than making things other people can make at half the price.
 
apple0154 said:
And exchange them for huge, white dicks due to having to buy products made by our neighbors at twice the cost?

You're a Socialist, AssHat.

The next time you buy a product made in China at half the cost drop by your neighbor on the way home and give him the difference. That's quick and easy.

OR

Vote for a government that will extend unemployment benefits, a government that will subsidize education, a government that will get your neighbor doing something other than making things other people can make at half the price.
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No. Im a protectionist. It's not socialism, it's reasonable trade policy.

we shouldn't be incentivizing wage slavery with our money, and putting fellow citizens out of work at the same time.

Capitalism needs to be balanced with other concerns, besides the bottom line.

Globalization is a race to the bottom.
 
AssHatZombie said:
No. Im a protectionist. It's not socialism, it's reasonable trade policy.

we shouldn't be incentivizing wage slavery with our money, and putting fellow citizens out of work at the same time.

Capitalism needs to be balanced with other concerns, besides the bottom line.

Globalization is a race to the bottom.
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No, unchecked capitalism is a race to the bottom.

Look at all the talk about wanting medical insurance companies to be able to do business across State lines. Why should that be allowed? Protect the State and charge people more.

I'm surprised at you, AssHat. "Capitalism needs to be balanced with other concerns, besides the bottom line." I can't believe my eyes! :eek3:

Have you been reading Marxist/Leninist propaganda? Are you involved in some hippy nonsense?
 
apple0154 said:
No, unchecked capitalism is a race to the bottom.
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That's why it should be checked in ways similar to how it was in the past. Protectionism for example.
Look at all the talk about wanting medical insurance companies to be able to do business across State lines. Why should that be allowed? Protect the State and charge people more.
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It's all a matter of degrees. Keeping the national border makes sense. The state border is not necessary.

And everything is on a case by case basis. Sometimes constraints make sense, sometimes not.
I'm surprised at you, AssHat. "Capitalism needs to be balanced with other concerns, besides the bottom line." I can't believe my eyes! :eek3:

Have you been reading Marxist/Leninist propaganda? Are you involved in some hippy nonsense?
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Protectionism and a pro-american trade policy is not leninism. Im sure lenin wanted to scrap the whole thing.
 
apple0154 said:
No, unchecked capitalism is a race to the bottom.

Look at all the talk about wanting medical insurance companies to be able to do business across State lines. Why should that be allowed? Protect the State and charge people more.

I'm surprised at you, AssHat. "Capitalism needs to be balanced with other concerns, besides the bottom line." I can't believe my eyes! :eek3:

Have you been reading Marxist/Leninist propaganda? Are you involved in some hippy nonsense?
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The bolded part is clear evidence that you are an hypocritical moron.
You can not claim to want to lower health insurance costs and support keeping the supply artifically short by imposing restrictions.

You are clearly an idiot
 
AssHatZombie said:
It's high time we say no to tiny yellow dicks in our ass and cut all trade relationships with CHina.
Click to expand...

Just one concrete example, China now produces 97% of the world's rare earth elements and without them the high tech industries in the US would grind to a halt. It is going to take several years at least to source alternative supplies.

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/26538/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ea...8037950/Rare-earths-just-got-a-lot-rarer.html
 
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tinfoil said:
The bolded part is clear evidence that you are an hypocritical moron.
You can not claim to want to lower health insurance costs and support keeping the supply artifically short by imposing restrictions.

You are clearly an idiot
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I see we have another poster with a learning disability.

It was a scenario directed to AssHat. If you had been following along you would have realized that. :palm:
 
tom prendergast said:
Just one concrete example, China now produces 97% of the world's rare earth elements and without them the high tech industries in the US would grind to a halt. It is going to take several years at least to source alternative supplies.

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/26538/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ea...8037950/Rare-earths-just-got-a-lot-rarer.html
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Freedom is worth it. We will find them quickly.

We don't have to incentivize their tyrannical system.

But also. We can buy raw materials without outsourcing every other thing to them. Don't be gay.

You're brainwashed by internationalist fascists.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Freedom is worth it. We will find them quickly.

We don't have to incentivize their tyrannical system.

But also. We can buy raw materials without outsourcing every other thing to them. Don't be gay.

You're brainwashed by internationalist fascists.
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How about you try posting something without the word fascist. Yes, the West can break the stranglehold but it is going to take some time.
 
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