Things are bad. What's the solution?

[Ohcapzag]

The number of Americans receiving food stamps rose to a record 41.3 million as the jobless rate hovered near a 27-year high, the government says.

Recipients of Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program subsidies for food purchases jumped 18 percent from a year earlier, the U.S. Department of Agriculture said in a statement on its website.

Participation has set records for 19 straight months.

About 40.5 million people, more than an eighth of the population, will get food stamps each month in the year that began Oct. 1, according to White House estimates. The figure is projected to rise to 43.3 million in 2011.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...to-record-41-3-million-in-june-usda-says.html

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

There is none.

 

[Don Quixote]

The number of Americans receiving food stamps rose to a record 41.3 million as the jobless rate hovered near a 27-year high, the government says.

Recipients of Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program subsidies for food purchases jumped 18 percent from a year earlier, the U.S. Department of Agriculture said in a statement on its website.

Participation has set records for 19 straight months.

About 40.5 million people, more than an eighth of the population, will get food stamps each month in the year that began Oct. 1, according to White House estimates. The figure is projected to rise to 43.3 million in 2011.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...to-record-41-3-million-in-june-usda-says.html

of course some of the republican candidates oppose unemployment insurance and food stamps - think of who bad off the nation would be without them and how bad it is even with them

 

[Good Luck]

How about if we start demanding the democratic puss heads in charge stop treating unemployment, food stamps, and other giveaway programs as a solution? They are a stop-gap at best, and that is when they are run efficiently. (a descriptor which cannot be applied to the federal government)

We need solutions, not stop gap subsidy programs (which includes the health care bill). We need to stop listening to the liberal mantra: "We need to spend more to get the economy going", because every time it fails, all we get back is "that's because the conservatives/republicans wouldn't let us spend enough!" How the fuck much is enough? Do we all just send in our entire paycheck and let the government spend it for us?

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

We need protectionism to keep industries here in america, providing jobs and goods for americans. The 'benefits' of globalization accrue mostly to multinational corporations, bankers, and ceos.

The 'rising tide raises all ships' dogma is provably false. the many "jobless recoveries" prove this fact. Tax cuts don't work to stimulate the economy when companies are outsourcing as many functions as possible.

Protectionsim Now!

Populism Forever!

p.s. protectionism is not socialism, it's a traditional tool of trade policy crafting.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Do we all just send in our entire paycheck and let the government spend it for us?

Well, yes... that's the general idea behind Socialist Marxism!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Things are bad. What's the solution?

Get rid of Democrats in Congress.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

Get rid of Democrats in Congress.

So how will that help? What's the chain of causality that leads to improvement?

 

[Mister Wonderful]

Get rid of Democrats in Congress.

I say let's get rid of tthe Republicans in Congress too. WTF did they accomplish last time they were the majority?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So how will that help? What's the chain of causality that leads to improvement?

Chain of causality? LOL... Well, Because you won't have Socialist Marxists in Congress, it will cause Conservative Capitalists to have the power to implement pro-capitalist policies, and reduce spending and debt, caused by Socialist Marxist policies. This will cause business and commerce to grow and expand, and it will cause the dollar to strengthen, which will cause prosperity for everyone, except those who don't want to work.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

Chain of causality? LOL... Well, Because you won't have Socialist Marxists in Congress, it will cause Conservative Capitalists to have the power to implement pro-capitalist policies, and reduce spending and debt, caused by Socialist Marxist policies. This will cause business and commerce to grow and expand, and it will cause the dollar to strengthen, which will cause prosperity for everyone, except those who don't want to work.

But in your version of capitalism, businesses pefer to hire overseas because they can pay less. How will that help people who arent bankers or ceo's?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

But in your version of capitalism, businesses pefer to hire overseas because they can pay less. How will that help people who arent bankers or ceo's?

You are misinformed, and you aren't going to get informed by being stubborn and parroting the same stupidity over and over again. I can't help you become informed if you simply bow up and refuse to learn.

Business most certainly does NOT "prefer" to hire overseas. That doesn't even make logical sense. They outsource because it is more profitable for them to do so, not because that is their preference. If there were an incentive for them to produce locally, that is what they would do, because they had rather make more profit. But here is the catch, we don't "make" things in America anymore, our manufacturing sector is pure shit compared to what it was 50-60 years ago, and that is largely due to labor unions pushing us out of the sector, and enabling foreign trade to flourish. In order to return to the days of old, we have to do something about unions collective bargaining, and incentivize manufacturing in the US. Not an easy feat when Democrats are owned by labor union lobbies, and opposed to incentivizing anything related to capitalism.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

You are misinformed, and you aren't going to get informed by being stubborn and parroting the same stupidity over and over again. I can't help you become informed if you simply bow up and refuse to learn.

Business most certainly does NOT "prefer" to hire overseas. That doesn't even make logical sense. They outsource because it is more profitable for them to do so, not because that is their preference. If there were an incentive for them to produce locally, that is what they would do, because they had rather make more profit. But here is the catch, we don't "make" things in America anymore, our manufacturing sector is pure shit compared to what it was 50-60 years ago, and that is largely due to labor unions pushing us out of the sector, and enabling foreign trade to flourish. In order to return to the days of old, we have to do something about unions collective bargaining, and incentivize manufacturing in the US. Not an easy feat when Democrats are owned by labor union lobbies, and opposed to incentivizing anything related to capitalism.

They prefer to hire overseas BECAUSE it is more profitable.

The loss of manufacturing mostly due to the U.S. convincing foreign nations to turn their people into wages slave, putting american citizens out of work.

Most workers are not in a union. You need a new rap, idiot. You just look like a fool at this point.

protectionism is what we need to revitalize the economy.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

They prefer to hire overseas BECAUSE it is more profitable.

The loss of manufacturing mostly due to the U.S. convincing foreign nations to turn their people into wages slave, putting american citizens out of work.

Most workers are not in a union. You need a new rap, idiot. You just look like a fool at this point.

protectionism is what we need to revitalize the economy.

Foreign nations turned their people into slaves long ago, before we ever outsourced the first job there. We didn't have to convince them to do that, they just did it on their own because they don't have a Constitution and Freedom like we have in America, and they could. Our outsourcing actually helps them, it's better to have something as opposed to nothing.

Most workers aren't in a union, but most workers aren't manufacturing things either. The vast majority of our workforce is not producing things, because that is cheaper to do elsewhere. If it were cheaper to do here, they would certainly do that instead... but do you want to assemble computer keyboards for $2 a day? I don't, and I don't know of many who do, to be honest. So we can start paying $200 for a keyboard made by some union worker in America, or we can keep doing what we're doing now! Would any of us be better off if we had to pay $200 for a keyboard, $800 for a pair of sneakers, $10k for a TV or refrigerator? Because, with union labor and collective bargaining, that is exactly what you'd be paying, if not for outsourcing.

I understand what you are saying, but your supposed solution would be to ban outsourcing and force companies to manufacture stuff here in America only, and with the current environment, the cost would prohibit that. The only way it could happen, would be to drastically increase the price of what we produce. So you want stuff to cost more? You want people to make less? Or do you want to keep doing what we are doing, and adopt incremental measures to incentivize American production and deincentivize outsourcing?

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

Foreign nations turned their people into slaves long ago, before we ever outsourced the first job there. We didn't have to convince them to do that, they just did it on their own because they don't have a Constitution and Freedom like we have in America, and they could. Our outsourcing actually helps them, it's better to have something as opposed to nothing.

Nope. We just give the dictators money and technology to keep their people as oppressed wage slaves. We shouldn't incentivize human slavery with our orders.

Most workers aren't in a union, but most workers aren't manufacturing things either. The vast majority of our workforce is not producing things, because that is cheaper to do elsewhere. If it were cheaper to do here, they would certainly do that instead... but do you want to assemble computer keyboards for $2 a day? I don't, and I don't know of many who do, to be honest. So we can start paying $200 for a keyboard made by some union worker in America, or we can keep doing what we're doing now! Would any of us be better off if we had to pay $200 for a keyboard, $800 for a pair of sneakers, $10k for a TV or refrigerator? Because, with union labor and collective bargaining, that is exactly what you'd be paying, if not for outsourcing.

I understand what you are saying, but your supposed solution would be to ban outsourcing and force companies to manufacture stuff here in America only, and with the current environment, the cost would prohibit that. The only way it could happen, would be to drastically increase the price of what we produce. So you want stuff to cost more? You want people to make less? Or do you want to keep doing what we are doing, and adopt incremental measures to incentivize American production and deincentivize outsourcing?

COsts wouldnt prohibit it if by law they couldnt import stuff. The costs are always the costs. And the federal reserve uses employment as a basis on which to justify creating more money, allegedly.

What do you propose to incrementally disincentivize outsourcing and incentivize american production? Haven't you kind of admittied im totally right with this admission?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Nope. We just give the dictators money and technology to keep their people as oppressed wage slaves. We shouldn't incentivize human slavery with our orders.

China has operated under the same kind of oppressive government for over 6,000 years, it started before anyone even thought about a United States! They don't keep their people oppressed because of our business, if we pulled all our orders, they would sell to Russia, and continue to oppress their people. The problem is their form of government, not American exploitation. We can't do anything about that, unless you want to go take over China and implement American law there... is that what you want to do?

Through trade with China, we at least have a bartering tool to use as leverage, to try and encourage reforms and make a change. You want to remove that tool completely, and leave us with absolutely no way to effect any change, and at the same time, punish the American consumer in the process, as well as the Chinese worker, who is dependent upon our dollars.

COsts wouldnt prohibit it if by law they couldnt import stuff. The costs are always the costs. And the federal reserve uses employment as a basis on which to justify creating more money, allegedly.

No, costs are determined by how much money it takes to produce something, transport it, package it, advertise and promote it, distribute it, and other things. By dramatically increasing the cost of production, the final cost to the consumer has to also increase. If, by law they couldn't import stuff, then stuff would cost considerably more to produce, and it would cost the consumer more to buy. The Feds print money to pay our debt, which continues to grow faster than we are able to pay it. This has nothing to do with outsourcing or importing.

What do you propose to incrementally disincentivize outsourcing and incentivize american production? Haven't you kind of admittied im totally right with this admission?

I did admit you make a valid point about outsourcing, but it is your 'solution' to the problem I am opposed to. We have to find free market solutions... ways to incentivize American production of goods and services and deincentivize outsourcing. The most obvious way I can think of, is incrementally decreasing taxes and regulatory fees for American production, as well as the subsequent burdens to business associated with American production, like cost of health care and collective bargaining. We make it more profitable, thus, more attractive to business, to produce things here instead of outsourcing. At the same time, you deincentivize outsourcing by implementing tariffs and taxes on businesses who outsource. You don't completely eliminate it, you make it a less attractive option. There will still be a LOT of things that will be more profitable to outsource, and that's fine... no one in America wants to make wooden cocktail umbrellas for $2 a day!

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

China has operated under the same kind of oppressive government for over 6,000 years, it started before anyone even thought about a United States! They don't keep their people oppressed because of our business, if we pulled all our orders, they would sell to Russia, and continue to oppress their people. The problem is their form of government, not American exploitation. We can't do anything about that, unless you want to go take over China and implement American law there... is that what you want to do?

Through trade with China, we at least have a bartering tool to use as leverage, to try and encourage reforms and make a change. You want to remove that tool completely, and leave us with absolutely no way to effect any change, and at the same time, punish the American consumer in the process, as well as the Chinese worker, who is dependent upon our dollars.



No, costs are determined by how much money it takes to produce something, transport it, package it, advertise and promote it, distribute it, and other things. By dramatically increasing the cost of production, the final cost to the consumer has to also increase. If, by law they couldn't import stuff, then stuff would cost considerably more to produce, and it would cost the consumer more to buy. The Feds print money to pay our debt, which continues to grow faster than we are able to pay it. This has nothing to do with outsourcing or importing.



I did admit you make a valid point about outsourcing, but it is your 'solution' to the problem I am opposed to. We have to find free market solutions... ways to incentivize American production of goods and services and deincentivize outsourcing. The most obvious way I can think of, is incrementally decreasing taxes and regulatory fees for American production, as well as the subsequent burdens to business associated with American production, like cost of health care and collective bargaining. We make it more profitable, thus, more attractive to business, to produce things here instead of outsourcing. At the same time, you deincentivize outsourcing by implementing tariffs and taxes on businesses who outsource. You don't completely eliminate it, you make it a less attractive option. There will still be a LOT of things that will be more profitable to outsource, and that's fine... no one in America wants to make wooden cocktail umbrellas for $2 a day!

We only incentivize tyranny when we give them our business. This is the fact.

People are being paid 20 cents hour or less. No matter much taxes we cut, labor costs will still be less where people are slaves and there are zero worker standards.

So you are in favor of tariffs and taxes then? Good. you're coming to the right way of thinking. So you are in favor of protectionist measures then?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

We only incentivize tyranny when we give them our business. This is the fact.

It's like claiming we incentivize rain by wearing raincoats! Tyranny is going to exist, no matter what we do. THIS is the fact.

People are being paid 20 cents hour or less.

Is it better for them if they are paid 0 cents an hour? Because THAT is what you are suggesting as a solution.

No matter much taxes we cut, labor costs will still be less where people are slaves and there are zero worker standards.

True, but I didn't say just to cut taxes, did I? I suggested that was ONE most obvious way to incentivize American production. Cutting taxes alone, would not have much effect, although, it would have some. Coupled with reforms in union's collective bargaining, and reducing the costs associated with hiring workers in the US, this would incentivize American production considerably. People in China are going to be slaves and have zero worker standards, regardless of what we do! Nothing we can ever do about that, unless you want to go take over China and implement American law.

So you are in favor of tariffs and taxes then? Good. you're coming to the right way of thinking. So you are in favor of protectionist measures then?

I wouldn't say that I "favor" them, I see them as a means to incentivize American production and deincentivize outsourcing. To a degree, that is acceptable and could be used to do that, but this isn't what you have suggested, you want to outlaw outsourcing altogether. You want to establish laws which would further enable unions to hold capitalism hostage and stifle business, or drive consumer prices through the roof. Your objective reasoning for this is, to somehow eliminate slavery and tyranny elsewhere, which would not be accomplished or realized.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

It's like claiming we incentivize rain by wearing raincoats! Tyranny is going to exist, no matter what we do. THIS is the fact.



Is it better for them if they are paid 0 cents an hour? Because THAT is what you are suggesting as a solution.



True, but I didn't say just to cut taxes, did I? I suggested that was ONE most obvious way to incentivize American production. Cutting taxes alone, would not have much effect, although, it would have some. Coupled with reforms in union's collective bargaining, and reducing the costs associated with hiring workers in the US, this would incentivize American production considerably. People in China are going to be slaves and have zero worker standards, regardless of what we do! Nothing we can ever do about that, unless you want to go take over China and implement American law.



I wouldn't say that I "favor" them, I see them as a means to incentivize American production and deincentivize outsourcing. To a degree, that is acceptable and could be used to do that, but this isn't what you have suggested, you want to outlaw outsourcing altogether. You want to establish laws which would further enable unions to hold capitalism hostage and stifle business, or drive consumer prices through the roof. Your objective reasoning for this is, to somehow eliminate slavery and tyranny elsewhere, which would not be accomplished or realized.

Yes. Purchasing from china incentivizes the human wage slavery, as THE PARTY becomes more powerful the more money they skim off.

I 've never said shit about unions. All i talk about i protectionist polices, like tariffs, or cutting trade relationships.

You support protectionist polices. Just admit it. Tariffs and "taxes which disincentivize outsourcing" are protectionism. You're a protectionist like me.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Yes. Purchasing from china incentivizes the human wage slavery, as THE PARTY becomes more powerful the more money they skim off.

*sigh* China is a very old dynasty, they were around before there was ever a such thing as an American dollar, and they will probably be around long after. We haven't incetivized that, it's how things have been there for centuries... millenniums... it's how things will be whether we buy their stuff or not. Just like it will rain whether we wear raincoats or not! At least through trade, we have some means of leverage with the government, we can effect some change. Human rights conditions are still deplorable in China, but they are markedly better than before Nixon instigated trade relations with them.

I 've never said shit about unions. All i talk about i protectionist polices, like tariffs, or cutting trade relationships.

But if you cut trade relations, you effectively kill people... don't you understand this? If no one is buying China's shit, they can't afford to feed the people who are supposed to be making the shit, so they kill them!

You support protectionist polices. Just admit it. Tariffs and "taxes which disincentivize outsourcing" are protectionism. You're a protectionist like me.

I think you are a moron who likes to repeat words like "protectionism" and "international globalist fascism" and you really don't have a fucking clue what they mean, you just think it makes you sound smart. You really seem to have more in common with pinhead liberals than myself. All of this compassion you have for 'wage slaves' and 'working conditions' in other places... as opposed to American capitalism and economic prosperity. And you know, that's fine if you actually had a plan to address those problems, but what you suggest, would make the situation worse, while costing us all more money for our products.