Woman executed in Virginia even though she didn't do the killing

tom prendergast said:
My logic, which I've already explained, is how do the actual killers end up with life whilst the instigator is executed. I guess only an American lawyer can understand that.
:palm:
Click to expand...

no, you said she didn't do the killing

that is absolutely false

and my statement stands about your ridiculous logic concerning that

it doesn't take an american lawyer to understand that...it just takes common sense
 
tom prendergast said:
My logic, which I've already explained, is how do the actual killers end up with life whilst the instigator is executed. I guess only an American lawyer can understand that.
:palm:
Click to expand...

They did the bidding for the person who wanted the murders to take place. That made her the murderer just as much as those who committed the actual act. Conspiracy to commit murder as I said is difficult to prove.

The more evil perpetrator imo is the person who hires the killler or instigates it in a premeditated fashion. Trading the death penalty for life sentences (plea bargain) in order to convict the conspirerer seems logical and even just. I'd bet that if all 3 could have been convicted without a plea deal they would have been.
 
Ice Dancer said:
They did the bidding for the person who wanted the murders to take place. That made her the murderer just as much as those who committed the actual act. Conspiracy to commit murder as I said is difficult to prove.

The more evil perpetrator imo is the person who hires the killler or instigates it in a premeditated fashion. Trading the death penalty for life sentences (plea bargain) in order to convict the conspirerer seems logical and even just. I'd bet that if all 3 could have been convicted without a plea deal they would have been.
Click to expand...

:party:
 
Yurt said:
no, you said she didn't do the killing

that is absolutely false

and my statement stands about your ridiculous logic concerning that

it doesn't take an american lawyer to understand that...it just takes common sense
Click to expand...

I would be really interested in what Socrtease thinks about this case?
 
This reminds of a very famous case in the 1950s involving Derek Bentley. He was hanged for the crime of murder whilst the teenager that actually fired the gun escaped the noose due to being underage. There are certain elements in common, notably the concept of joint enterprise and Bentley's mental age which was assessed as being 11 years old at the time.

To quote from Wikipedia.


Following the execution there was a public sense of unease about the decision, resulting in a long campaign, mostly led by Bentley's sister Iris, to secure a posthumous pardon for him. In March 1966 his remains were removed from Wandsworth Prison and reburied in a family grave. Then in July 1993 Bentley was granted a pardon in respect of the sentence of death passed upon him and carried out. However in English law this did not quash his conviction for murder.
Eventually, on 30 July 1998, the Court of Appeal quashed Bentley's conviction for murder.

Derek Bentley case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Question_book-new.svg" class="image"><img alt="Question book-new.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png
 
Last edited:
MakeMeASandwichBitch said:
Executing the mentally retarded? Jeez, Tom, some of the conservatives are here at work, you don't want to give them a woody.
Click to expand...

Hitler started on the mentally ill, medically infirm and itinerants first, before he got around to the Jews. I'm reminded of the famous statement by Martin Niemöller

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
 
Last edited:
Ice Dancer said:
They did the bidding for the person who wanted the murders to take place. That made her the murderer just as much as those who committed the actual act. Conspiracy to commit murder as I said is difficult to prove.

The more evil perpetrator imo is the person who hires the killler or instigates it in a premeditated fashion. Trading the death penalty for life sentences (plea bargain) in order to convict the conspirerer seems logical and even just. I'd bet that if all 3 could have been convicted without a plea deal they would have been.
Click to expand...

You have a strange idea of the concept of justice but the US justice system has frequently confounded and baffled many people in the UK.
 
tom prendergast said:
You have a strange idea of the concept of justice but the US justice system has frequently confounded and baffled many people in the UK.
Click to expand...

No, Tom, it was clearly explained to you how the woman received the death penalty even though those she hired to do her dirty work did not. You even framed your question as if to suggest the woman did not do the killing...I submit that makes your ideas of justice strange.
 
Ice Dancer said:
No, Tom, it was clearly explained to you how the woman received the death penalty even though those she hired to do her dirty work did not. You even framed your question as if to suggest the woman did not do the killing...I submit that makes your ideas of justice strange.
Click to expand...

She didn't do the killing, she got others to perform the killing on her behalf, at least we are agreed about that. In fact one of the killers killed himself in 2006 and exonerated her of blame. What was so clearly explained, just doesn't make any sense to me and many others like me in the UK. I find the whole concept of plea bargaining abhorrent especially in a capital crime case.
 
tom prendergast said:
She didn't do the killing, she got others to perform the killing on her behalf, at least we are agreed about that. In fact one of the killers killed himself in 2006 and exonerated her of blame. What was so clearly explained, just doesn't make any sense to me and many others like me in the UK. I find the whole concept of plea bargaining abhorrent especially in a capital crime case.
Click to expand...

She did do the killing... Even in the UK the conspiracy concept is used in law (as derived from common law). If not then I could hire someone to kill you and NOT be guilty.

As to plea bargaining in a capital offence I agree that if used at all it should be with every precaution to not undermine justice...a life sentence does not seem to me to be an injustice.
 
Ice Dancer said:
She did do the killing... Even in the UK the conspiracy concept is used in law (as derived from common law). If not then I could hire someone to kill you and NOT be guilty.

As to plea bargaining in a capital offence I agree that if used at all it should be with every precaution to not undermine justice...a life sentence does not seem to me to be an injustice.
Click to expand...

The crime in the UK would most likely be conspiracy to murder which is not the same as murder itself. Then again we haven't had the death penalty for 45 years.
 
tom prendergast said:
The crime in the UK would most likely be conspiracy to murder which is not the same as murder itself. Then again we haven't had the death penalty for 45 years.
Click to expand...

In the US conspiracy to commit a crime is pretty much equal to committing the crime itself. The main purpose of conspiracy charges is so that two criminals involved in the crime can't get off by each claiming the other did the actual crime.

Bargaining for death does have obviously chilling implications, however. I hope the prosecutor feels proud of himself. I know I couldn't sleep at night if I didn't know I was a murderer.
 
In the US, also, if you're part of some crime where you have no intention of killing anyone and your partner goes nuts and kills someone, the justice system can invent intent and put you to death, an innovation we acquired from stone age systems of justice. This is even better if they secure your death sentence by bargaining with the killer.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top