tax exempt status for religions

should religious institutions have tax exempt real estate


  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
As a Catholic, I'm quite sure we would have far less to fear as one of the world's best organized religions, than most others. However, tell that to Bob's Church and Moe's Shrine to Zeus, and they might be out of business pretty quick.

If you want to pay fewer taxes, tell the leftists to get off your ass and stop raising rates on you, religiously. Also, do you give services of your own to the community, the way St. Vincent de Paul and Knights of Columbus do, or just tax revenue?

then let religions file as not for profit organization and accept the rules placed on them - which means opening their books for examination, which religions refuse to - what do they have to hide?

if you want to do good, why cloak those actions in tax exempt organizations with closed books - file as a not for profit
 
why should anyone who is not of organized religions' faith subsidize organized religion - i think that is contrary to the first amendment

it is not that i hate organized religion (i try very much not to hate period, however, there exceptions (like child abusers)) i just object to subsidizing them with my taxes that they avoid - stated my opinion on exceptions to this statement but you seem to ignore them

How are you subsidizing a church?
 
then let religions file as not for profit organization and accept the rules placed on them - which means opening their books for examination, which religions refuse to - what do they have to hide?

if you want to do good, why cloak those actions in tax exempt organizations with closed books - file as a not for profit

You do not know what you are talking about. Most all churches file a 501(c)(3) so that their contributors may claim tax emptions for their tithe!

Further, though rare, an IRS audit can be conducted. Most churches do internal audits and have annual or bi-annual reports provided to their congregations. These audits are critical for a churches survival for a couple of reasons; application for loans to build; accountability and good standing. For denominational churches accounting is an absolute duty because of credibility as well as tracking the numerous outreach and diaconal support. There are also forms that churches have to file with IRS for expenditures and money not exempted by their not for profit status.
 
So you use your imagined excesses of prehistoric religions to defend your assessment that organized religion has done more harm than good? In short, your claims are pure bullshit.

No shit. - much excrement - first by definition, prehistoric means that we do not know anything about it

second - look at the excesses of both christianity and islam when they went forth to convert others to their faith (not to mention the excesses performed in trying to purify their religions) - 50 million christians were killed by christians while christianity tried to define itself in the first century of its existence (this happened periodically during christianity's early centuries and as late as the 18th century)

but to get away from christianity, most early religions simply killed non-believers whenever they could and anyone accused of performing 'magic' - clarke's law states that 'any sufficiently advanced technology is indistingable from magic' though most religions burned people for doing something that they did not understand


So believe what you want and worship in the manner you want. Who is stopping you? But that is not good enough, is it? You want to use government to penalize people for not believing as you do - the penultimate totalitarian.

i do not object to other people's beliefs as long as they leave me alone to follow mine and pay taxes - i still do not like organized religions, but i do not have them

as for penalizing other religions, i claim that i am the one penalized as i pay taxes for government services while religions do not

My anger has nothing to do with defending my faith. My anger is at totalitarian assholes who desire to use government to reinforce their belief system. You PERSONALLY do not believe in organized religion, therefore organized religion should not enjoy the tax exempt status that every other community benefit organization enjoys.

this is only part of my disgust at tax exemptions (by the way you claim that this is no such thing as non-organized religions) for religions - why should religions have a special niche carved out for them - religions pay sales taxes so why not property and personal taxes

Answer my question: IF churches should not enjoy tax exempt status, should that also apply to ALL non-charitable community benefit organizations? Or are you going to claim that singling out churches is justified because you do not like churches? - let them file as not-forprofit organizations


And I don't give a ripe pig fart what type of religion (unorganized, spirituality, self made morals, whatever) you believe in. If you don't like churches that have priests, don't join one. Don't join ANY church if you do not believe in them.

But, again, that is not good enough for you, is it? You don't like organized religion, so you want the government to treat churches differently. You want legalized discrimination against organized religion because you do not like it. You are the perfect example of the intolerance of the supposed philosophy of tolerance, and as such, you are the very definition of the type of person, and type of belief, for which the 1st Amendment was written to protect the rest of us from.

The fact that you believe differently, even that you disparage my belief system does not anger me. I am secure enough to discuss differences in belief systems without being angry over it. - this i applaud and i was not trying to disparage anyone elses belief system, i just want them to pay taxes like everyone else

What angers me is when people belittle the beliefs of others, purposely taking on an aura of superiority over the religious, in a hypocritical criticism that religions are bad because they assume an aura of moral superiority. What angers me is your egocentric assumption that because YOU dislike organized religion, then organized religion should be discriminated against in law. YOUR particular religious beliefs should no more be made into law than should mine.
- i am not asking for the above, i am asking for them to pay taxes or file as not for profit organizations and show how they spend their money like any other organization

ps i do have somewhat of a problem with the koc, but that is because i am a freemason and there have been problems between chatholicism and freemasons - however, things are a bit more ecumenical these days and the rivalry is a bit more traditional, but still real as catholics cannot become freemasons
 
You do not know what you are talking about. Most all churches file a 501(c)(3) so that their contributors may claim tax emptions for their tithe!

Further, though rare, an IRS audit can be conducted. Most churches do internal audits and have annual or bi-annual reports provided to their congregations. These audits are critical for a churches survival for a couple of reasons; application for loans to build; accountability and good standing. For denominational churches accounting is an absolute duty because of credibility as well as tracking the numerous outreach and diaconal support. There are also forms that churches have to file with IRS for expenditures and money not exempted by their not for profit status.

and real property?
 
Furthermore, DQ, everyone attending the Church, who would be receiving emergency services in the event of a fire/arson or crazed shooting, or medical incident, pays taxes on the outside. They'd simply be receiving services on Church property.
 
Furthermore, DQ, everyone attending the Church, who would be receiving emergency services in the event of a fire/arson or crazed shooting, or medical incident, pays taxes on the outside. They'd simply be receiving services on Church property.

so the religious institution should not pay because someone else pays even though the religious institution receives government services - next time i get a tax bill, i will claim that my neighbor pays so why should i
 
Now you are seeking another angle??? Numerous non profits have tax exemptions, including property tax exemptions.

i would not be opposed to not for profits having to pay property taxes - you just gave me an idea for another thread, thank you
 
Hold on, were not finished with you in THIS one!

You said:
please remember my first statement- -'i think that religions should not have any tax exempt status except for charitable work that does not further their religious views'

I would like to know exactly how would you implement this? The actual charity work itself, is a furthering of their religious views! By the mere performing of charity, is a fundamental part of most Judeo-Christian religions, and I think it's a big part of most other religions as well. So how would you distinguish whether a church was furthering their religious views, or just doing the charity work?

Oh... and have you explained how to get around the 1st Amendment yet? You know, the part that fundamentally guarantees free religion... note the word "free" there... it means without taxation. Hey.... wait a minute, I thought we had that Wall of Separation thingy anyway? Does it only work ONE way, you think?
 
i would not be opposed to not for profits having to pay property taxes

What a goofy fucking idiot! Are you serious here? How is a NOT FOR PROFIT going to PAY any damn thing? They have NO PROFIT moron! It's in the fucking name! Jeeeesus Christ!

So now you want it to be where those who want to donate to a 'cause' have to first pay the government before they can have the honor of helping others? Because that is exactly what you are advocating here. I've not read anything this profoundly absurd in a long time, Don, and that's saying something here!

Let's consider what ramifications and consequences we would almost immediately see, as a result of your knee-jerk socialist stupidity...

The Salvation Army is one of the world's largest providers of social aid, with expenditures including operating costs of $2.6 billion in 2004, helping more than 32 million people in the U.S. alone. In addition to community centres and disaster relief, the organization does work in refugee camps, especially among displaced people in Africa. The Salvation Army has received an A- rating from the American Institute of Philanthropy. In the United Kingdom, The Salvation Army is the largest non-governmental provider of social services. The Salvation Army is the second largest charity in the United States, with private donations of almost $2 billion for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2007.

That will all go bye-bye if you tax them and restrict their freedom of religion. There are literally thousands of such examples, independent church charity programs are huge all over the country, and they provide the bulk of charity in our communities, whether you realize that or not. They run homeless missions, food closets, battered women shelters... all of this goes bye-bye when you start treating it as private enterprise and taxing it. You have nothing to replace that, government could never do it, and there simply aren't enough wealthy people to steal money from to take care of it. So you can see, your stupid little idea is fucked up beyond repair.

I think what we need to do, is round up all you godless anti-religious bastards, and drop you off over in Kandahar... let the Muslims figure out if you'll make a 'good Islamic' or not, and do with you what they please.
 
Oh... and have you explained how to get around the 1st Amendment yet? You know, the part that fundamentally guarantees free religion... note the word "free" there... it means without taxation. Hey.... wait a minute, I thought we had that Wall of Separation thingy anyway? Does it only work ONE way, you think?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


Dixie, are you maintaining that the phrase "...free exercise thereof" is talking about taxation?
 
so the religious institution should not pay because someone else pays even though the religious institution receives government services - next time i get a tax bill, i will claim that my neighbor pays so why should i

You would receive services on your neighbor's property, if you were visiting, having a BBQ, or whatever.
 
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


Dixie, are you maintaining that the phrase "...free exercise thereof" is talking about taxation?

You left out three words: "nor prohibiting the..."

Taxes are prohibitive by nature.
 
- i am not asking for the above, i am asking for them to pay taxes or file as not for profit organizations and show how they spend their money like any other organization

Being qualified as a church automatically designates it as a community benefit organization (non-profit) under the tax laws. Churches need to, and do, maintain very detailed financial records, just as any other organization which depends on gifts and donations to operate.

Learn the applicable tax laws before you continue to butch about it. As far as I can see your problem is about it being a church despite your protests to the contrary. You label churches as businesses, implying they are for profit. Either your opinion is based on extreme ignorance, or you are forming a deliberate lie to support the idea they should pay taxes.

Repeatedly it has been pointed out to you that churches are not treated any differently under the law than other not-for-profit community benefit organizations. Even Green Peace falls under that heading, pay no taxes on contributions and other income, pay no property taxes, and donations made to them are tax deductible. If you want to remove tax exempt status from churches, you would have to remove tax exempt status from every other non-profit including charities. I don't think that would fly.

And, speaking of equal treatment between community benefit organizations, you keep avoiding my question: Do you propose removing tax exempt status from ALL community benefit organizations, or just churches?
 
Giving religous institutions preferential treatment over non-religous institutions to me is promoting the establisment of religen.
 
Giving religous institutions preferential treatment over non-religous institutions to me is promoting the establisment of religen.

Except, nonreligious organizations that do things similar to what churches do are tax exempt as well.
 
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