Unaffordable at Any Speed

RockX

Banned
Unaffordable at Any Speed President Obama's electric car subsidies are snobby and foolish.

It's official: The Chevrolet Volt, the new plug-in electric hybrid car from General Motors, will cost $41,000—that's a four-seat hatchback for about the base price of a BMW 335i. To be sure, a $7,500 federal tax credit cuts that to $33,500, and electricity is cheaper per mile than gas. But barring some huge oil price spike or stiff new gas tax, it would take more than a decade to offset the higher purchase price. Some will pay a premium for the frisson of going green or being the first "early adopter" on the block. Still, this little runabout is a rich man's ride.

And that's my problem with the Obama administration's energy policy, or at least with his lavish subsidies for the Volt, Nissan's all-electric Leaf (likely sticker price $33,000), and Tesla's $100,000 all-electric Roadster: Where does the federal government get off spending the average person's tax dollars to help better-off-than-average Americans buy expensive new cars?

President Obama's ostensible goals are reducing both carbon emissions and the nation's dependence on foreign oil and creating "green" jobs. But it's far from clear that his program will actually achieve these laudable aims at a reasonable cost. And there are cheaper, more equitable policies. You might call the president's subsidies limousine liberalism—if only the cars were bigger.

How rarefied is the electric-car demographic? When Deloitte Consulting interviewed industry experts and 2,000 potential buyers, it found that from now until 2020, only "young, very high income individuals"—those from households making more than $200,000 a year—would even be interested in plug-in hybrids or all-electric cars. This "small number" of people will provide "nowhere near the volume needed for mass adoption." They will be concentrated in Southern California, where weather, state regulations, and infrastructure are all favorable to electric vehicles—"adoption is already being popularized by high-profile celebrities."

The Obama administration says it knows better, which is why it is not only subsidizing the purchase of electrics but spending heavily to help corporations build them. There's $2.4 billion in stimulus money for electric-car component factories, such as a Volt battery plant in Holland, Mich., whose groundbreaking the president attended in July. And the Energy Department has loaned hundreds of millions of dollars to Ford, Nissan, GM, Tesla, and Fisker.

http://www.slate.com/id/2262229/

:mad:
I feel all warm and tingly knowing the government is pissing away my tax dollars so the rich liberals can drive around in a government subsidized car.
 
It goes further than just subsidies for the cars. My uncle is involved in a program to install and maintain plug in stations in HUD homes for the state of Michigan. He's receiving about $250,000,000 for this program.
 
In the twelve months before I took office, American auto companies lost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Sales plunged 40 percent.

Liquidation was a very real possibility.

Years of papering over tough problems and failing to adapt to changing times, combined with a vicious economic crisis, brought an industry that’s been the symbol of our manufacturing might for a century to the brink of collapse.

We didn’t have many good options.

On one hand, we could have continued the practice of handing out billions of taxpayer dollars to the auto industry with no real strings attached.

On the other hand, we could have walked away and allowed two major auto companies to go out of business, which could have wiped out one million American jobs.

I refused to let that happen.

So, we came up with a third way.

We said to the auto companies, if you’re willing to make the hard decisions necessary to adapt and compete in the 21st century, we’ll make a one-time investment in your future.

Of course, if some folks had their way, none of this would be happening at all.

There were leaders of the “just say no” crowd in Washington who argued that standing by the auto industry would guarantee failure.

One called it “the worst investment you could possibly make.”

They said we should just walk away and let these jobs go.

Since GM and Chrysler emerged from bankruptcy, our auto industry has added 55,000 jobs, the strongest period of job growth in more than ten years.

For the first time since 2004, all three American automakers are operating at a profit.

Sales have begun to rebound, and plants that wouldn’t have existed if all of us didn’t act are now operating maximum capacity.

What’s more, thanks to our investments, a lot of these auto companies are reinventing themselves to meet the demands of a new age.

Michigan, an advanced battery industry is taking root that will power clean electric cars, an industry that produced only 2 percent of the world’s advanced batteries last year, but will now be able to produce as much as 40 percent in a little over five years.

That’s real progress.

There’s no doubt that we have a long way to go and a lot of work to do before folks here and across the country can feel whole again.

But, what’s important is that we’re finally beginning to see some of the tough decisions we made pay off, and if we had listened to the cynics and the naysayers, if we had simply done what the politics of the moment required, none of this progress would have happened.

Still, even as these icons of American industry are being reborn, we also need to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with America’s small businessmen and women, as well, particularly since they’re the ones who create most of the new jobs in this country.

As we work to rebuild our economy, I can’t imagine anything more common-sense than giving additional tax breaks and badly-needed lending assistance to America’s small business owners so they can grow and hire.

That’s what we’re trying to do with the Small Business Jobs Act, a bill that has been praised as being good for small businesses by groups like the Chamber of Commerce and the National Federation of Independent Business.

It’s a bill that includes provision after provision authored by both Democrats and Republicans.

But, the Republican leaders in the Senate once again used parliamentary procedures to block it.

Understand, a majority of Senators support the plan.

It’s just that the Republican leaders in the Senate won’t even allow it to come up for a vote.

That isn’t right, and I’m calling on the Republican leaders in the Senate to stop holding America’s small businesses hostage to politics, and allow an up-or-down vote on this small business jobs bill.

At a time when America is just starting to move forward again, we can’t afford the do-nothing policies and partisan maneuvering that will only take us backward.

I won’t stand here and pretend everything’s wonderful.

I know that times are tough.

But, what I also know is that we’ve made it through tough times before, and we’ll make it through again.

So to all the naysayers out there, I say this.

Don’t ever bet against the American people, because we don’t take the easy way out.

That’s not how we deal with challenge.

That’s not how we build this country into the greatest economic power the world has ever known.

We did it by summoning the courage to persevere, and adapt, and push this country forward, inch by inch.

As long as I have the privilege of being your President, I will keep fighting alongside you until we reach a better day.

Thanks.
 
It goes further than just subsidies for the cars. My uncle is involved in a program to install and maintain plug in stations in HUD homes for the state of Michigan. He's receiving about $250,000,000 for this program.
You mean an outlet in the garage? Why don't these slackers use an extension cord?

This stupid Chevy is going to cost us more than any gas it saves. :palm:
 
The Nissan LEAF runs around $26k. Looks like the japanese are gonna win this round as well.
 
The Nissan LEAF runs around $26k. Looks like the japanese are gonna win this round as well.
Not even, the minimal distances you can get preclude its use to any except those people who never leave a city. The Volt will get me any distance. Make it a pick up truck that can pull something and you might get me to buy one.
 
Not even, the minimal distances you can get preclude its use to any except those people who never leave a city. The Volt will get me any distance. Make it a pick up truck that can pull something and you might get me to buy one.

The LEAF will run 100 miles on a single charge (less if running the heater or a/c). That would take care of the majority of drivers in the USA.

The average person only drives around 12k miles per year. Even assuming they park all weekend, that is still less than 50 miles per day.

The VOLT claims to be able to run 40 miles per day. But they have an onboard gasoline generator to get more miles.



Seems like, for millions of people, the LEAF would be a great option. Especially since it is significantly less expensive than the Volt.
 
The LEAF will run 100 miles on a single charge (less if running the heater or a/c). That would take care of the majority of drivers in the USA.

The average person only drives around 12k miles per year. Even assuming they park all weekend, that is still less than 50 miles per day.

The VOLT claims to be able to run 40 miles per day. But they have an onboard gasoline generator to get more miles.



Seems like, for millions of people, the LEAF would be a great option. Especially since it is significantly less expensive than the Volt.
It will take care of city folk, maybe. If they don't decide to take a trip to the mountains that day... or just to go to the green belt to ride bikes... or to hit the larger more secksi mall in that city that's 52 miles away... For most New Yorkers it wouldn't even get them to their job and back, LA is even further spread.

I think you are mistaken. The engine cuts in to charge up the Volt, it will take you any distance and is easily refilled without hours of charging time.
 
It will take care of city folk, maybe. If they don't decide to take a trip to the mountains that day... or just to go to the green belt to ride bikes... or to hit the larger more secksi mall in that city that's 52 miles away... For most New Yorkers it wouldn't even get them to their job and back, LA is even further spread.

I think you are mistaken. The engine cuts in to charge up the Volt, it will take you any distance and is easily refilled without hours of charging time.

LA has electric vehicle charging stations around the city- sometimes nothing more than an electric outlet next to a tree at the curb. If all-electric are going to make it then this is the way to go. Tie the charging station into a "smart" parking meter and charge them for the electricity and the space at the same time.
 
LA has electric vehicle charging stations around the city- sometimes nothing more than an electric outlet next to a tree at the curb. If all-electric are going to make it then this is the way to go. Tie the charging station into a "smart" parking meter and charge them for the electricity and the space at the same time.
I don't have time to charge up, seriously. Who has several hours to wait when it takes less than a minute to fill up their car otherwise? The reality is these are still just a rich man's toy, they'd never be useful as the sole transportation of a family. The Volt has more promise in that arena because you don't have to sit idle and wait for the car to charge up. However, the price makes it still a rich man's toy.
 
I don't have time to charge up, seriously. Who has several hours to wait when it takes less than a minute to fill up their car otherwise? The reality is these are still just a rich man's toy, they'd never be useful as the sole transportation of a family. The Volt has more promise in that arena because you don't have to sit idle and wait for the car to charge up. However, the price makes it still a rich man's toy.

The Volt is still little more than a hybrid. The LEAF's cost being so much less would allow families to have a second gas guzzler for any trips over 50 miles.
 
I don't have time to charge up, seriously. Who has several hours to wait when it takes less than a minute to fill up their car otherwise? The reality is these are still just a rich man's toy, they'd never be useful as the sole transportation of a family. The Volt has more promise in that arena because you don't have to sit idle and wait for the car to charge up. However, the price makes it still a rich man's toy.
I'm talking about an all-electric, actually Damo.

I think that you are looking at this through the Damo lens. Some people need a small car to get them around urban areas, well within the range of an all-electric vehicle. I use to commute from my suburban home to my work in the city- a 30 way round trip, and an all-electric would have been fine for that. Sure it would suck for many of my other needs, but a two car family might be able to justify one.

There is a niche market for these. Curb-side charging stations would increase the size of that market by providing extended range as well as a "plan B" if the battery is getting on in age.

An example of a niche market for hybrids is city taxis. They get better mileage in town than on the highway, need less brake maintenance, and produce fewer emissions.

Same for trash trucks. They go through many suburban areas and the stop-start cycle is about 100'. Brake-gas, brake-gas, all day long. A hybrid would be perfect for that.
 
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