If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

ZenMode said:
The reason we will never agree is you have this belief:
"Are you saying there is enough evidence that gods do not exist..."

That's not how evidence and proof works. I don't believe, and neither do you, extraordinary claims until there is sufficient evidence it's NOT true or DOESN'T exist.
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Attempted negative proof fallacy.
You can't make any evidence just disappear, Void. Argument of the Stone fallacy.
 
ZenMode said:
Yes, most everything I believe to be true is something that I have no first had experience with. Gods are no different so, like anything else, I look at available evidence for gods which, today, is little more than nothing.
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Argument of the Stone fallacy. You cannot make any evidence just disappear, Void. Attempted negative proof fallacy.
 
Ross Dolan said:
You attempt to be evasive at every opportunity.

So I will assume you have said that you believe there are no gods.

THAT, Zen, is the true reason you describe yourself as an atheist.
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Yes, a believe that there are no gods is pretty much the textbook definition of an atheist.
 
Cypress said:
Cooperating to build bridges, cooperating to fund fire departments, cooperating to fund a social security retirement insurance program are not examples of morality. Those are examples of self interest.
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Building bridges to serve others is based on a moral.
Funding fire departments to serve others is based on a moral
Creating a social security program is based on a moral.
Cypress said:
Morality is knowing what you ought to do,
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This part is true.
Cypress said:
but very frequently not doing it.
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This part is not true. A moral is what determines what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'.
Cypress said:
And it involves some measure of selfless self sacrifice.
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Not necessarily.
Cypress said:
For example, you have never once in your life lifted a finger to volunteer at a food pantry, you've never been involved in helping the homeless, you've never volunteered to mentor to an at-risk teen. You've probably never contributed a generous amount of $$$ to NGOs helping Gazans or Ukrainians.
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Omniscience fallacy. You have no idea of his history in these areas.
 
Into the Night said:
This seems to be your go to phrase when you have nothing else to say. You've lost the argument.
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It's my go-to phrase when you ask questions, or make statements, I've replied to repeatedly or when you are feigning confusion, like recently when you pretend my French fry comment was actually about potatoes or French fries
 
FastLane said:
Isn't morality really in your self interest because it leads to a better to a better society.
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Define "better society".
Elon Musk thinks empathy is a weakness in society. Donald Trump thinks a better society is one that favors the wealthy and powerful. Hitler thought a better society was one that was ethnically pure and homogenous.
FastLane said:
I give to a Church missionary work where we have 5 drilling rigs that go around Africa drilling wells to provide drinking water for villages. I contribute every month to St. Jude's , the Tarrant county food bank and to Tunnels to Towers.. And I provide anesthesia services to the Edna Gladney home.
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From a rational, scientific, resource allocation perspective helping complete strangers on the other side of the planet doesn't advance your interests at all. In fact, it is counterproductive to a scientific Darwinian survival of the fittest perspective.

Absolute right and wrong does not entail thinking about society or what is in one's best interests. When Oskar Schindler risked arrest and execution to save thousands of complete strangers, he was not sitting around thinking about how to make society more stable. We was thinking about the presence of pure evil and his conscience told him he ought to do something.
 
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