The Kids are Doing Alright: The Culture War is Over

nobody is trying to abort a child at fertilization.....

Here you go again sticking your head up your ass. What do you mean nobody does that? Please, you have now said several types of abortion are statistically insignificant and should be ignored. Which ones shouldn't we ignore?

Abortion pills attempt to stop it at that. They prevent implantation. They would have to be illegal if we said a legal right to life is present at fertilization.
 
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The woman who can achieve a viable pregnancy is a filthy murdering whore while the woman that hopes to get pregnant but can't is guilty of no sin, even though her actions and those of the doctor are highly likely to result in the death of a "baby." It's not really a "baby" then to you is it. It's a potential "baby."
can we be clear on one thing.....you, I consider a filthy murdering whore......women who become pregnant, not so much.....

It most certainly endangers the "child." Are you kidding, 9/10 will die, and that is at the best of odds.

It is not like open heart surgery. Open heart surgery is performed to save a life. Here, you claim, we are creating a full moral agent with equal rights of any other human being and immediately putting into a situation where it is very likely to die.
/shrugs.....no, they are performing a medical procedure so that a human being can continue to live.....remember, there are only two alternatives available for those embryos at that point.....they can remain frozen forever, or they can be killed

Of course, the truth is that the idea that those fertilized eggs is morally equivalent to a baby is ridiculous and there is no reason to believe it, as you do. But the moral and logical results of that ignorant position would make ivf as barbaric as abortion. There is no escaping that other than to acknowledge that they are not "babies." They simply are not as morally valuable as a real baby and so it's okay to try in the hopes of creating a baby.

"morally equivalent"?......I've never claimed that......scientifically equivalent.....both are living human beings as defined by science, not as defined by any morality.....a moral choice is one which has a right/wrong significance.......an unborn child isn't "human" because of a right/wrong choice.....it is human based upon the observations of scientific fact......there are no "choices" involved in the issue.....
 
ditzyliberal

What does reading the words have to do with it? Yes, I read your post. Your inability to use the quotes makes it hard to respond in context, so I will just do it in one comment. I am tired of fixing your mess.

Copy and paste is beyond you? Jeez, you're either one lazy bastard or to dumb to realize this lame ploy of yours just won't cut it. The chronology of the posts will also expose your dishonesty.

BS, you did argue that my claims, that many of those would divorce and some were lying, was supposition and conjecture. You repeated it several times. The point of that was that the number of children in two parents homes throughout childhood was not as high as you implied. It never had anything to do with two homosexuals having sex and producing offspring. There is absolutely no connection between the two, dumbfuck.

You're full of it String....the source material YOU provided did not support your BS about divorce and single parent homes when carefully examined. Cornered, you then LIE about what I previously wrote in responses to your assertions and statements. The chronology of the posts will always expose your dishonesty.

I may have confused articles. I tried to find the original source and had difficulty. Who cares. 63% or 67%. The census does corroborate the Rutgers study. 4% is gotta be pretty close to the margin of error on either. But we can use 67%, because +/-4% who fucking cares! Some dumb fuck playing gotcha games because his arguments are worthless, that's who.


"Pretty close...gotta be...and who cares if it's not accurate or there is no direct corroboration????" :eek: What school gave YOU a diploma? Seriously, I would like to see you go up to some medical/scientific/mechanical institution of learning with some claims and then present them with the "logic" you use here to justify why your "opinion" is valid. You'd be arrested for causing hernias and repiratory ailments due to the laughter.

You're a fucking joke, String


Hey mastermind, water is wet. That proves my argument and you can't contradict my logic. That proves gays should be able to marry.

Again, I never stated that gays couldn't get married. That was just a dodge injected by you to try and avoid your inability to fault my statements regarding the root cause as to why the "gay family" is an artificial construct. The chronology of the posts will always expose your dishonesty.

That's to what your argument on homosexual procreation amounts. No, that is what YOU falsely try to claim it is. Anyone with a high school education can read what I wrote and see what a dishonest person you are regarding this. It is as if you were trying to prove OJ guilty and said, "he played for the Bills... prove me wrong!" Why? An absurd statement on your part that has no relevence to the discussion at hand. Your dishonest attempts to dodge the issue are transparent and pathetic, String. Grow up!

What is the difference between a medical problem and a biological impossibility? That matters to marriage, how?
It pertains to children, as I've stated and explained earlier. Your playing dumb or actually being unable to comprehend and retain what others write is just a waste of time, given the easy accesibility of the chronology of the posts.

There is no proof that homosexuals cannot raise kids or that heterosexual children suffer under them. That's just nonsense.

And as long as jokers like you lie, deny and remain ignorant of what's going on in the world, that statement is valid to you. Just don't read the Stacey/Bilblarz report and other like material....it'll rip the hinges of your fragile mind apart!

You still have not proven anything, except that you are fucking stupid. I know and have known that water is wet, OJ played for the Bills and two people of the same sex can't produce offspring. I just don't see how any of those points matter one iota to the topic of gay marriage or families. Until you make a case for the points relevance you have nothing.

Translation: String just rejects, lies, denies and plays dumb about anything that disturbs his little vision of the world.

Well folks, I learned long ago that facts and logic cannot win over beliefs and hysterical emotions. Posts #288 and 387 on this thread demonstrate what a joke String is regarding any rational debate on this subject. I leave him to his predictable repeat of slander, lies, denial, dodges and disproved points.
 
Here you go again sticking your head up your ass. What do you mean nobody does that? Please, you have now said several types of abortion are statistically insignificant and should be ignored. Which ones shouldn't we ignore?

Abortion pills attempt to stop it at that. They prevent implantation. They would have to be illegal if we said a legal right to life is present at fertilization.

a true "morning after" pill is not an abortificant.....it prevents a pregnancy from occurring, thus it is birth control.....an abortificant, by definition ends a pregnancy.......the typical woman is not aware she is pregnant and thus has no reason to consider having an abortion until the unborn child is at least four weeks into development.....

you continue to waste your time pretending that actions that are taken before a pregnancy even occurs have some relevance to the abortion debate.....

as for what we should ignore, you are working your way up high on the list.....
 
a true "morning after" pill is not an abortificant.....it prevents a pregnancy from occurring, thus it is birth control.....an abortificant, by definition ends a pregnancy.......the typical woman is not aware she is pregnant and thus has no reason to consider having an abortion until the unborn child is at least four weeks into development.....

you continue to waste your time pretending that actions that are taken before a pregnancy even occurs have some relevance to the abortion debate.....

as for what we should ignore, you are working your way up high on the list.....

:palm:

They work prior to implantation, i.e., they do not necessarily stop fertilization. Pregnancy can only be determined after implantation. According to you, the fertilized egg is a baby and should be "left alone." Of course, that has relevance to the debate.
 
/shrugs.....no, they are performing a medical procedure so that a human being can continue to live.....remember, there are only two alternatives available for those embryos at that point.....they can remain frozen forever, or they can be killed

Or they can never be created. If that is a baby then it would be immoral to create it knowing that it would likely die. It's nothing but a rationalization to pretend any of that is done to preserve life. They did not just happen to create it and then look for a way to preserve it. The life was CREATED with the knowledge that, at least, 90% of them will die.

But they don't really matter to you.

"morally equivalent"?......I've never claimed that......scientifically equivalent.....both are living human beings as defined by science, not as defined by any morality.....a moral choice is one which has a right/wrong significance.......an unborn child isn't "human" because of a right/wrong choice.....it is human based upon the observations of scientific fact......there are no "choices" involved in the issue.....

And again, we are talking about when the right to life exists. That is the relevant point in the abortion debate, not what you think is a good biological definition, but when the life is worthy of state protection.
 
ditzyliberal

Using the quote feature is beyond you? Jeez, you are either one lazy bastard or too dumb. I don't see why I should have to cut paste, trim out my comments (that would be removed already) and make sure there are not any open tags. It's a pain in the ass and pointless, except you don't know how to use the quotes.

I have supported my every claim. As far as the statement that some of the married parents of the 63%-67% of kids living with parents (not necessarily married) will divorce there is without any doubt, true.

STFU about the chronology of the post and please, tell me what point was in error or was not supported? Blowing hot air isn't going to get you anywhere.

Why are marriages that cannot produce offspring artificial constructs? According to what definition, oh I know...

Gay marriage is an artificial construct because it cannot produce offspring.
What is an artificial construct as applied to marriage?
It's a gay marriage that cannot produce offspring.

Your argument is circular and irrelevant.

You have not used any facts (that are not obvious, two women can't have kids together... wow... that's amazing... are you getting a Nobel for this discovery) or logic. You cannot tell us what relevance your circular bs has to anything and yet you continue to demand that you've proven something. You have proven that you don't know where the debate is.
 
And a gem from the home office concerning the significance in terms of numbers.

The Pill and its "cousins" kill children earlier in their life than surgical abortion. In America, chemical abortions are estimated to kill more than 7 million babies each year -- while surgical abortions kill about 1.5 million babies each year.
 
:palm:

They work prior to implantation, i.e., they do not necessarily stop fertilization. Pregnancy can only be determined after implantation. According to you, the fertilized egg is a baby and should be "left alone." Of course, that has relevance to the debate.

of what possible relevance to abortion is an event prior to any attempt to abort?.....where is the act which takes life?......how can there be a choice to abort without knowledge of the existence of something to abort?.....
 
Or they can never be created. If that is a baby then it would be immoral to create it knowing that it would likely die. It's nothing but a rationalization to pretend any of that is done to preserve life. They did not just happen to create it and then look for a way to preserve it. The life was CREATED with the knowledge that, at least, 90% of them will die.

But they don't really matter to you.



And again, we are talking about when the right to life exists. That is the relevant point in the abortion debate, not what you think is a good biological definition, but when the life is worthy of state protection.

lol....and that is your argument?.....from one who says none of them are worthy of protection......good lord what a fucking hypocrite......I have already told you I believe it is wrong to create life with an intent to destroy it......yet you pretend that the act of trying to preserve is an act of destruction......how on earth can trying to make something good come out of that which is bad, be bad?......
 
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String....I have spent enough time with you...let's just leave it with me hating your fucking guts and you lusting after killing children....there's nothing more to be gained by trying to reform you......
 
ditzyliberal

Using the quote feature is beyond you? Jeez, you are either one lazy bastard or too dumb. I don't see why I should have to cut paste, trim out my comments (that would be removed already) and make sure there are not any open tags. It's a pain in the ass and pointless, except you don't know how to use the quotes.

I have supported my every claim. As far as the statement that some of the married parents of the 63%-67% of kids living with parents (not necessarily married) will divorce there is without any doubt, true.

STFU about the chronology of the post and please, tell me what point was in error or was not supported? Blowing hot air isn't going to get you anywhere.

Why are marriages that cannot produce offspring artificial constructs? According to what definition, oh I know...

Gay marriage is an artificial construct because it cannot produce offspring.
What is an artificial construct as applied to marriage?
It's a gay marriage that cannot produce offspring.

Your argument is circular and irrelevant.

You have not used any facts (that are not obvious, two women can't have kids together... wow... that's amazing... are you getting a Nobel for this discovery) or logic. You cannot tell us what relevance your circular bs has to anything and yet you continue to demand that you've proven something. You have proven that you don't know where the debate is.


Awww, poor widdle String is throwing a tantrum because someone points out his widdle world view just isn't as perfect as he wants it to be.

Grow up, you preposterous clown....your dishonesty in these exchanges is plain for all to see. All you can do is pretend things were not responded to or stated or explain...all you can do is make false allegations and pretend every new subject you dodge to was originally part of the conversation.

If I can reproduce posts to continue a point for point...so can you. TFB if you don't have the stones or brains or are too damned lazy to do so.

You're "sick" of hearing about the chronology of the posts because the FACTS are there for all to see...and they make YOU a cowardly liar!

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=682535&postcount=463

When you grow the fuck up and learn to honestly, rationally debate an issue...then I'll entertain you. Until then, just keep blathering the same old BS....I'm done kicking your dopey ass around.
 
Awww, poor widdle String is throwing a tantrum because someone points out his widdle world view just isn't as perfect as he wants it to be.

Grow up, you preposterous clown....your dishonesty in these exchanges is plain for all to see. All you can do is pretend things were not responded to or stated or explain...all you can do is make false allegations and pretend every new subject you dodge to was originally part of the conversation.

If I can reproduce posts to continue a point for point...so can you. TFB if you don't have the stones or brains or are too damned lazy to do so.

You're "sick" of hearing about the chronology of the posts because the FACTS are there for all to see...and they make YOU a cowardly liar!

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=682535&postcount=463

When you grow the fuck up and learn to honestly, rationally debate an issue...then I'll entertain you. Until then, just keep blathering the same old BS....I'm done kicking your dopey ass around.

Someone learned to use the quote feature, almost. Now, if you could just lean to be responsive instead of only blowing hot air.

What did I get wrong? Nothing, my point was that plenty of children are growing up without both parents and that that family structure is not all that stable. The numbers show that. 67% not all married, and many of those will divorce before the child is 18.

Two people of the same sex can't have children, so?

You still have not answered. Your posts have no substance. It's just you making silly boasts and yapping about the chronology (which you make hard to follow) of your empty posts.
 
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String....I have spent enough time with you...let's just leave it with me hating your fucking guts and you lusting after killing children....there's nothing more to be gained by trying to reform you......

Yeah, run away pussy. You support killing babies, by your own definition, not me.
 
of what possible relevance to abortion is an event prior to any attempt to abort?.....where is the act which takes life?......how can there be a choice to abort without knowledge of the existence of something to abort?.....

WTF RU talking about retard. They kill fertilized eggs, babies according to you. More than the abortion doctors.
 
lol....and that is your argument?.....from one who says none of them are worthy of protection......good lord what a fucking hypocrite......I have already told you I believe it is wrong to create life with an intent to destroy it......yet you pretend that the act of trying to preserve is an act of destruction......how on earth can trying to make something good come out of that which is bad, be bad?......

Gibberish.

IVF creates life (fertilized egg) with the knowledge that many will be killed. It is not an act of preservation.
 
pmp your argument is that the life of the fertilized egg is of no value so long as the woman is trying to achieve pregnancy. In your opinion, they can kill a dozen or as many as they want just so some infertile couple can achieve pregnancy. Yet you rush to these "babies" defense to stop some girl from aborting, because she chose to have sex and can not be allowed to play God, i.e., control her body. It's absurd and highly hypocritical.
 
pmp your argument is that the life of the fertilized egg is of no value so long as the woman is trying to achieve pregnancy. In your opinion, they can kill a dozen or as many as they want just so some infertile couple can achieve pregnancy. Yet you rush to these "babies" defense to stop some girl from aborting, because she chose to have sex and can not be allowed to play God, i.e., control her body. It's absurd and highly hypocritical.

Im not sure insisting all babies be dehumanized just to be CONSISTENT is the right solution, however.
 
Gibberish.

IVF creates life (fertilized egg) with the knowledge that many will be killed. It is not an act of preservation.

we're talking about the adoption of an unwanted fertilized egg and implanting it into a mother who is unable to conceive, are we not?......that is a procedure that is intended to preserve a life which otherwise would have been lost......

as for the act which created the in vitro bank of fertilized eggs in the first place, I have already stated that I oppose the creation of life with the intent to destroy it.....how many times do I have to repeat myself.....
 
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