If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[ZenMode]

So...no prisons, prisoners, etc. No arrests. No work release programs. No taxes, and therefore no government.

Go learn English.

Wups. That's already in the Bible as part of the gospel. Children should also not abuse their parents.

Oh, so not abusing children doesn't make the list for your God, but he needs 3 commandments talking about himself?

What happened to being humble?

So all the rest you steal from God. You are ignoring the 8th commandment right there. How do you account for this?

Just asked them.

Again, I made the 10 Commandments better in less than 5 minutes.

Less than 30 seconds, actually. If I had a keyboard, it would have been 10 seconds

 

[Cypress]

The fact that the Bible so obviously misses on morality is more evidence against the Christian god.

What universal standard are you pointing at to say one morality is better than another?

There's no morality in a scientific Darwinian view of life and the universe. Just a natural drive to preserve and propagate your genetic information. Altruism and reciprocity within the family or social group are hard-wired Darwinian instincts to protect your genetic code. That's ultimately about self-interest.

The fact that you have convinced yourself there is a tangible and innate universal standard of moral value we are obligated to strive towards indicates you think there is something beyond matter and energy. You believe that the human conscience is tapped into a higher value that transcends opinion, personal whim, or Darwinian science.

 

[gfm7175]

Easy, take out two of the three of God self-glorifying and put in "Do not enslave any man" and "Do not abuse, in any way, children".

Done.

Any questions?

Where is "immoral behavior" being openly endorsed in The Bible?

 

[ZenMode]

What universal standard are you pointing at to say one morality is better than another?

There's no morality in a scientific Darwinian view of life and the universe. Just a natural drive to preserve and propagate your genetic information. Altruism and reciprocity within the family or social group are hard-wired Darwinian instincts to protect your genetic code.

The fact that you have convinced yourself there is a tangible and innate universal standard of moral value we are obligated to strive towards indicates you think there is something beyond matter and energy. You believe that the human conscience is tapped into a higher value that transcends opinion, personal whim, or Darwinian science.

The question of objective vs subjective morality is a bigger topic, but it's very odd that God so badly missed on things that most civilized people see as immoral.

 

[ZenMode]

Where is "immoral behavior" being openly endorsed in The Bible?

Derp.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, over time, what is considered moral has changed,

So? Different religions have different morals.

that's why there's a dramatic difference in god's approach between the OT and NT.

There isn't. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The only thing that changed was that instead of looking forward to the coming of Jesus Christ, we now look back.

People have changed, but not God.

That doesn't mean there's any connection to Christianity or the Bible,

Every religion provides a set of morals, even your religions.

it's just that societal norms have changed and, in some cases, Christians have very much resisted.

Christians try to follow God, who does not change.

For example, there's a Christian pastor in AZ that, as recently as the 2000's, was calling for the death of all homosexuals.

All homosexuals will die.

The acceptance of homosexuals has come DESPITE the Bible/Christianity, not BECAUSE of the Bible/Christianity.

I do not accept the practice and never will. It is destructive and selfish.

Christians have retroactively rationalized an acceptance of homosexuality by "reinterpreting" the Bible or simply not caring what the Bible says.

Nothing in the Bible accepts the practice of homosexual behavior. The Bible condemns it for the same reasons I do.

That's precisely how things have worked in nearly all religious cultures/civilizations. It becomes clear that past religious teachings are untenable by new societal norms and then it becomes a question of how religious leaders make that work.

God does not change. His gospel does not change.

 

[gfm7175]

So God changed his mind regarding what is moral?

No.

 

[Into the Night]

The fact that the Bible so obviously misses on morality is more evidence against the Christian god.

Since the Bible lists quite a few morals, what do you think 'it so obviously misses'?

 

[Into the Night]

The question of objective vs subjective morality

Buzzword fallacy. Your word games won't work.

is a bigger topic,

Word games are not a topic.

but it's very odd that God so badly missed on things that most civilized people see as immoral.

You don't get to speak for everyone. You only get to speak for you. Omniscience fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Derp.

YARP. Evasion. Answer the question.

 

[Monad Portal]

Killing your neighbor for working on the Sabbath. Killing your wife if she's not a virgin on your wedding night, etc.

Self explanitory

Nope. There are things that are obviously immoral that weren't included on a list from the being that, according to Christians, is THE single source for all that is moral.

It's not my fault that I could write a better 10 commandments today.

the single source for Christians is the golden rule. it is the whole of the laws as stated by Jesus himself.

 

[Monad Portal]

The fact that the Bible so obviously misses on morality is more evidence against the Christian god.

I think the golden rule nails trancendent human morality.

 

[ZenMode]

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

So you would be okay with following God's rules from the Old testament and killing your neighbor if he works on the Sabbath or killing your new wife if she wasn't a virgin? How about killing your kids if they talk back? Are you okay with God's rules on that?

 

[ZenMode]

the single source for Christians is the golden rule. it is the whole of the laws as stated by Jesus himself.

You don't get to cherry pick what you want from the Bible. It's all the word of the objective determiner of morality.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, someone(s) had to be the first to propose everything.

The Bible doesn't prohibit slavery,

Presentism fallacy.

yet you had Alcidamas and Aristotle (4th Century BC) both speaking out against slavery.

Misquoting again I see.

 

[Cypress]

The question of objective vs subjective morality is a bigger topic, but it's very odd that God so badly missed on things that most civilized people see as immoral.

So I guess you think morality is relative and based on opinion.

In your worldview, what the Nazis did to Jews was not absolutely, objectively wrong.

That is where a religious worldview is superior to yours, imo. In religion there there are things that are objectively wrong, and it's based largely on the religious belief that all humans have innate value.

If you are nothing but a collection of quarks and electrons, you don't have any inherent, innate value.

 

[ZenMode]

So I guess you think morality is relative and based on opinion.

In your worldview, what the Nazis did to Jews was not absolutely, objectively wrong.

That is where a religious worldview is superior to yours, imo. In religion there there are things that are objectively wrong, and it's based largely on the religious belief that all humans have innate value

What I believe is irrelevant. I am not a Christian and the current conversation is about morality has established by the Christian God in the Bible.

 

[ZenMode]

Presentism fallacy.

Incoherent babbling.

Misquoting again I see.

I was wrong on one of those two. That changes nothing about the fact that your God did not think it necessary to address slavery in his top 10 rules, but decided to glorify himself in 30% of them.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Nope, it is a fact that man has invoked extraterrestrial beings to explain what he doesn't understand and/or is afraid of. The track record of those things being explained by science is 100% so far.

My beliefs and "guess" is based on that objective track record.

Spoken like a true mirror image of a theist. That probably accounts for why you want to bash them so often. You simply have a faith in your blind guesses about the REALITY of existence, that you cannot tolerate any deviation from them.

The objective track record of which you speak is an illusion that your faith requires of you.

But I guess you feel you are a lot smarter than those fellows I mentioned above.

 

[Into the Night]

Correct and throughout history, man is known to create gods, demons and other supernatural creatures to explain what they don't understand or fear.

How do you know they are created?

I've seen Christians legitimately talk about Baal as though he/it is obviously real.

How do you know he isn't?

But, the fact remains that things that were, at one time, unexplainable ended up being explained by science.

Science is completely atheistic. It is not a proof. It doesn't care whether any god or gods exist. Attempted proof by buzzword. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism).

Mental illness was believed to be demonic possession,

Demon possession can certainly look like it, yes.

so ancient man drilled holes in peoples' heads to let the demon out. Lightning was attributed to gods.

It still is. Even the protection methods against lightning could be said to be inspired by God.

So, yes, I'm looking at the past of man,

Man is not God.

what their tendencies are the lack of true evidence FOR gods and aligning my beliefs accordingly.

You cannot make any evidence just disappear, Void.

I'm playing the odds.

Math error: Failure to declare boundary. Failure to declare randX. Failure to perform calculation.
Logic error: Buzzphrase fallacy.