What does this painting mean to you?

[IBDaMann]

That is not what they say.

I can line them up to assure you that you are gravely mistaken.

They say tradition holds equal weight as scripture.

Nope. They say that both are necessary because the Bible doesn't cover everything, but they place the Bible first.

The Roman Church started worshiping on Sunday to avoid persecution by Roman. Then in Emperor Constantine's decree in A.D. 321 making Sunday a public holiday because he wanted to Unite the Roman empire under one Religion. The Romans were pagans Constantine marched his army through the Tiber river and told them they were baptized and to find a priest.

The problem is with your wording. They weren't Catholics at that point, just Christians, like you.

Then at the Council of Laodicia A.D. 365, Church Cannon officially discouraged the Sabbath while promoting Sunday observance.

Yes, some Christians were tossing around that idea.

 

[FastLane]

And then showed up on the 8th day over and over again, creating a tradition in the church. As I said... There is a reason they chose that day.

I am a Buddhist... I can go on Thursday, like they do almost everywhere in Asia, but here in the US they do Sundays usually because it is the day the vast majority of the population has a day for that kind of thing. If it was a bible thing it would not matter that I changed the day, what would matter is if I remembered the sabbath and kept that memory holy...

Regardless, I gave you verses where God himself appeared to the disciples... It is clearly an apostolic thing...

The Sabbath is a reflection of what God did on creation week. It is the Commandment that tell God made us and that is the reason he is worthy of worship.

 

[FastLane]

Leaving out tradition, Scripture was compiled by men and men are fallible. And, the Bible has gone through changes over time.


Search Assist

Yes, the Bible has undergone changes over time, including edits and variations in translations. These changes can be attributed to factors like copying errors, translation differences, and the removal or addition of certain texts in various versions.

discourse.biologos.org Wikipedia

Changes in the Bible Over Time​

Historical Editing and Variations​

The Bible has undergone various changes throughout its history. These changes include:

• Editing and Redaction: Many books within the Bible were edited or compiled from earlier texts. For example, 1-2 Chronicles is considered an edited version of earlier biblical narratives.
• Translation Variants: Different translations of the Bible, such as the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible), often show significant differences from the original Hebrew texts. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls revealed Hebrew manuscripts that sometimes align more closely with these Greek texts than with the later standardized Hebrew versions.

Manuscript Differences​

• Scribal Errors: Many changes are minor and can be attributed to scribal errors or translation differences. However, some variations are more significant, such as the different endings of the Gospel of Mark and the story of the woman caught in adultery, which appears in some manuscripts but not in others.
• Canonical Differences: The number of books considered canonical varies among different religious traditions. For instance, the Protestant Bible contains 66 books, while the Catholic Bible includes 73, and the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible has 81.

Impact of Changes​

These changes raise questions about the Bible's authority and interpretation. While some view these variations as problematic, others see them as part of the Bible's organic development over time. The core belief remains that the Bible serves as a spiritual guide, regardless of its textual history.

God protects His message. It would be insane for God to leave his message to Man for Man's salvation and then to let that message to be destroyed.

Christie AI has very poor exegeses.

2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[BartenderElite]

God protects His message. It would be insane for God to leave his message to Man for Man's salvation and then to let that message to be destroyed.

Christie AI has very poor exegeses.

2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I definitely don't think that all scripture is inspiration of God. But I completely get why some authors would want to put that kind of language in the Bible.

 

[FastLane]

I can line them up to assure you that you are gravely mistaken.

Then start lining up the official doctrine of the Catholic Church and start refuting. I have been studying this for over a half of a century and I can assure you that Catholic doctrine agrees with me that Catholics changed the solemnity of the Sabbath to Sunday at the Council of Laodicia

Nope. They say that both are necessary because the Bible doesn't cover everything, but they place the Bible first.

Nope

The problem is with your wording. They weren't Catholics at that point, just Christians, like you.

Not according to the Church of Rome.

According to Catholic tradition, Jesus appointed Saint Peter as the first pope, and the church traces its origins back to the events of Pentecost, which is believed to be when the apostles began to spread Jesus's teachings.

Yes, some Christians were tossing around that idea.

More than "tossing the idea around. They wrote a Cannon 29 Transferring the Sabbath solemnity to Sunday.

 

[FastLane]

I definitely don't think that all scripture is inspiration of God. But I completely get why some authors would want to put that kind of language in the Bible.

Well you disagree with the Bible then. You need to study it more. The Bible has one author and many transcribers. The author inspired their thoughts and the transcribers wrote those thoughts in their own words. But I suspect you don't believe the Bible so I won't spend my time with you. You have to study it an pray about it before you can understand it.

 

[Guno צְבִי]

Well you disagree with the Bible then. You need to study it more. The Bible has one author and many transcribers. The author inspired their thoughts and the transcribers wrote those thoughts in their own words. But I suspect you don't believe the Bible so I won't spend my time with you. You have to study it an pray about it before you can understand it.

How many translations and denominations do your yokels have?

 

[Damocles]

The Sabbath is a reflection of what God did on creation week. It is the Commandment that tell God made us and that is the reason he is worthy of worship.

The Sabbath is a command of the Old Covenant, one of the "cleansing" commandments. Christ fulfilled the law, therefore you are saved by Grace and not by Action. Christ covered this in many ways, one of them were when he stated that it is what comes out of the mouth of man that defiles him and not what goes into their mouth (Mark 7:14–23).

Each of the commandments, except the Sabbath, are reiterated in the New Testament and apply to the Christians. Here is a list of where to find them, how it is restated:

Commandment	New Testament passage that reaffirms it for Christians
1. No other gods	Acts 14:15; 1 Cor 8:6; 1 Thess 1:9; 1 John 5:21 – “turn from idols to serve the living God”
2. No idols / images	Acts 15:20, 29 (Jerusalem Council decision for Gentile Christians); 1 Cor 10:14; 1 John 5:21
3. Do not take God’s name in vain	James 5:12 – “Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear… Let your ‘Yes’ be yes…” (direct echo of the commandment)
5. Honor father and mother	Ephesians 6:1–3 – “Children, obey your parents in the Lord… ‘Honor your father and mother’ (this is the first commandment with a promise)…” Paul quotes Exodus 20:12 directly and applies it to Gentile Christians in Ephesus.
6. You shall not murder	Romans 13:9; Galatians 5:21; James 2:11; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 21:8
7. You shall not commit adultery	Romans 13:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9–10; Hebrews 13:4; James 2:11
8. You shall not steal	Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Corinthians 6:10
9. You shall not bear false witness	Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:25; Colossians 3:9
10. You shall not covet	Romans 7:7 (Paul: “I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, ‘You shall not covet’”); Romans 13:9; Ephesians 5:3

The one you find missing is the Sabbath, that one was counted as fulfilled. Christ stated he came to fulfill the law, not to replace it... what became the "new covenant"...

So, The Sabbath Day commandment is like eating Kosher (Christ talks about how it is what comes out of your mouth, meaning what you say or think, that defiles you, not what you put into your mouth) and is fulfilled in what becomes the New Covenant.

So when Christians say “Jesus fulfilled the Law, He did not abolish it,” they mean:

• The moral demands of the Law (including nine of the Ten Commandments) are still in force and are now obeyed out of love and by the power of the Holy Spirit, not to earn salvation.
• The ceremonial and civil parts (including the literal seventh-day Sabbath regulation) are fulfilled in Christ and no longer bind Christians in the same way.

That is why the New Testament can quote the Ten Commandments as still authoritative for believers, yet also say we are “not under law but under grace” (Romans 6:14–15) and that the Sabbath regulation was “only a shadow of what was to come; the reality is found in Christ” (Colossians 2:16–17).

And Christ rising on the 1st Day of the week became "the lord's day" (referenced in Revelations 1:10, at least in Greek it was) as well as coming back among the Apostles on the 1st day, began a new day of worship, the Christians began meeting on Sunday.

I still maintain my belief that the Sabbath Day was never marked by Adam and they didn't magically know which day is the actual 7th... it was followed by the remembrance and that they took their "7th day" off.

However, Christians began meeting on Sundays when Jesus was still among the faithful before he was "taken up"... I think you need to read that book of yours a bit better.

 

[FastLane]

The Sabbath is a command of the Old Covenant, one of the "cleansing" commandments. Christ fulfilled the law, therefore you are saved by Grace and not by Action. Christ covered this in many ways, one of them were when he stated that it is what comes out of the mouth of man that defiles him and not what goes into their mouth (Mark 7:14–23).

Each of the commandments, except the Sabbath, are reiterated in the New Testament and apply to the Christians. Here is a list of where to find them, how it is restated:

Commandment	New Testament passage that reaffirms it for Christians
1. No other gods	Acts 14:15; 1 Cor 8:6; 1 Thess 1:9; 1 John 5:21 – “turn from idols to serve the living God”
2. No idols / images	Acts 15:20, 29 (Jerusalem Council decision for Gentile Christians); 1 Cor 10:14; 1 John 5:21
3. Do not take God’s name in vain	James 5:12 – “Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear… Let your ‘Yes’ be yes…” (direct echo of the commandment)
5. Honor father and mother	Ephesians 6:1–3 – “Children, obey your parents in the Lord… ‘Honor your father and mother’ (this is the first commandment with a promise)…” Paul quotes Exodus 20:12 directly and applies it to Gentile Christians in Ephesus.
6. You shall not murder	Romans 13:9; Galatians 5:21; James 2:11; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 21:8
7. You shall not commit adultery	Romans 13:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9–10; Hebrews 13:4; James 2:11
8. You shall not steal	Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Corinthians 6:10
9. You shall not bear false witness	Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:25; Colossians 3:9
10. You shall not covet	Romans 7:7 (Paul: “I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, ‘You shall not covet’”); Romans 13:9; Ephesians 5:3

The one you find missing is the Sabbath, that one was counted as fulfilled. Christ stated he came to fulfill the law, not to replace it... what became the "new covenant"...

So, The Sabbath Day commandment is like eating Kosher (Christ talks about how it is what comes out of your mouth, meaning what you say or think, that defiles you, not what you put into your mouth) and is fulfilled in what becomes the New Covenant.

So when Christians say “Jesus fulfilled the Law, He did not abolish it,” they mean:

• The moral demands of the Law (including nine of the Ten Commandments) are still in force and are now obeyed out of love and by the power of the Holy Spirit, not to earn salvation.
• The ceremonial and civil parts (including the literal seventh-day Sabbath regulation) are fulfilled in Christ and no longer bind Christians in the same way.

That is why the New Testament can quote the Ten Commandments as still authoritative for believers, yet also say we are “not under law but under grace” (Romans 6:14–15) and that the Sabbath regulation was “only a shadow of what was to come; the reality is found in Christ” (Colossians 2:16–17).

And Christ rising on the 1st Day of the week became "the lord's day" (referenced in Revelations 1:10, at least in Greek it was) as well as coming back among the Apostles on the 1st day, began a new day of worship, the Christians began meeting on Sunday.

I still maintain my belief that the Sabbath Day was never marked by Adam and they didn't magically know which day is the actual 7th... it was followed by the remembrance and that they took their "7th day" off.

However, Christians began meeting on Sundays when Jesus was still among the faithful before he was "taken up"... I think you need to read that book of yours a bit better.

There are Moral Law and Ceremonial Law. (and civil law)

The Moral Law is the 10 Commandments

Ceremonial Law is animal sacrifice and the yearly feast days system. The Israelite could not read for the most part. So God setup the ceremonial laws after mount Sinai to show the Israelites the plan of salvation in symbolic form. This symbolism was fulfilled by the coming of Jesus Christ. The type had met the antitype. Christ fulfilled the ceremonial law so animal sacrifice and the rest of the ceremonial law was no longer needed. The Sabbath was given to Man at creation LONG before the Ceremonial law was given to Moses and point Back to creation not forward to Christ death on the cross. In fact the Israelite were following the Sabbath before Sinai and actually even back in Egypt if you understand the Hebrew words that are used but for our purposes they were observing the Sabbath before the 10 commandments and before the Ceremonial law were given.







Exo 20:8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Tools
Exo 20:9
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Tools
Exo 20:10
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Tools
Exo 20:11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Sabbath is a command of the Old Covenant, one of the "cleansing" commandments. Christ fulfilled the law, therefore you are saved by Grace and not by Action. Christ covered this in many ways, one of them were when he stated that it is what comes out of the mouth of man that defiles him and not what goes into their mouth (Mark 7:14–23).

Each of the commandments, except the Sabbath, are reiterated in the New Testament and apply to the Christians. Here is a list of where to find them, how it is restated:

Commandment	New Testament passage that reaffirms it for Christians
1. No other gods	Acts 14:15; 1 Cor 8:6; 1 Thess 1:9; 1 John 5:21 – “turn from idols to serve the living God”
2. No idols / images	Acts 15:20, 29 (Jerusalem Council decision for Gentile Christians); 1 Cor 10:14; 1 John 5:21
3. Do not take God’s name in vain	James 5:12 – “Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear… Let your ‘Yes’ be yes…” (direct echo of the commandment)
5. Honor father and mother	Ephesians 6:1–3 – “Children, obey your parents in the Lord… ‘Honor your father and mother’ (this is the first commandment with a promise)…” Paul quotes Exodus 20:12 directly and applies it to Gentile Christians in Ephesus.
6. You shall not murder	Romans 13:9; Galatians 5:21; James 2:11; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 21:8
7. You shall not commit adultery	Romans 13:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9–10; Hebrews 13:4; James 2:11
8. You shall not steal	Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Corinthians 6:10
9. You shall not bear false witness	Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:25; Colossians 3:9
10. You shall not covet	Romans 7:7 (Paul: “I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, ‘You shall not covet’”); Romans 13:9; Ephesians 5:3

The one you find missing is the Sabbath, that one was counted as fulfilled. Christ stated he came to fulfill the law, not to replace it... what became the "new covenant"...

So, The Sabbath Day commandment is like eating Kosher (Christ talks about how it is what comes out of your mouth, meaning what you say or think, that defiles you, not what you put into your mouth) and is fulfilled in what becomes the New Covenant.

So when Christians say “Jesus fulfilled the Law, He did not abolish it,” they mean:

• The moral demands of the Law (including nine of the Ten Commandments) are still in force and are now obeyed out of love and by the power of the Holy Spirit, not to earn salvation.
• The ceremonial and civil parts (including the literal seventh-day Sabbath regulation) are fulfilled in Christ and no longer bind Christians in the same way.

That is why the New Testament can quote the Ten Commandments as still authoritative for believers, yet also say we are “not under law but under grace” (Romans 6:14–15) and that the Sabbath regulation was “only a shadow of what was to come; the reality is found in Christ” (Colossians 2:16–17).

And Christ rising on the 1st Day of the week became "the lord's day" (referenced in Revelations 1:10, at least in Greek it was) as well as coming back among the Apostles on the 1st day, began a new day of worship, the Christians began meeting on Sunday.

I still maintain my belief that the Sabbath Day was never marked by Adam and they didn't magically know which day is the actual 7th... it was followed by the remembrance and that they took their "7th day" off.

However, Christians began meeting on Sundays when Jesus was still among the faithful before he was "taken up"... I think you need to read that book of yours a bit better.

Damo please limited your cutting a pasting to a single point so I can speak to that single point so it will be less confusing.

The disciples weren't having a religious meeting the were hiding from the Jews because they were afraid they would be killed next. This is not an example of worship on the 1st day of the week.


Jhn 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where
Jhn 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


Damo
You keep referring to the Lord's day and you say that is the 1st day of the week. Where is your biblical proof?

The only day the Lord specifically calls His is the Sabbath
Mat 12:8
For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Tools
Mar 2:28
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Tools
Luk 6:5
And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

 

[Damocles]

There are Moral Law and Ceremonial Law. (and civil law)

The Moral Law is the 10 Commandments

Ceremonial Law is animal sacrifice and the yearly feast days system. The Israelite could not read for the most part. So God setup the ceremonial laws after mount Sinai to show the Israelites the plan of salvation in symbolic form. This symbolism was fulfilled by the coming of Jesus Christ. The type had met the antitype. Christ fulfilled the ceremonial law so animal sacrifice and the rest of the ceremonial law was no longer needed. The Sabbath was given to Man at creation LONG before the Ceremonial law was given to Moses and point Back to creation not forward to Christ death on the cross. In fact the Israelite were following the Sabbath before Sinai and actually even back in Egypt if you understand the Hebrew words that are used but for our purposes they were observing the Sabbath before the 10 commandments and before the Ceremonial law were given.







Exo 20:8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Tools
Exo 20:9
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Tools
Exo 20:10
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Tools
Exo 20:11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Damo please limited your cutting a pasting to a single point so I can speak to that single point so it will be less confusing.

The disciples weren't having a religious meeting the were hiding from the Jews because they were afraid they would be killed next. This is not an example of worship on the 1st day of the week.


Jhn 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where
Jhn 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


Damo
You keep referring to the Lord's day and you say that is the 1st day of the week. Where is your biblical proof?

The only day the Lord specifically calls His is the Sabbath
Mat 12:8
For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Tools
Mar 2:28
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Tools
Luk 6:5
And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The issue you have is not understanding the difference between Grace and Works. You cannot get to paradise by following the rules, you must have faith. You really need to ask your pastor about the difference between the new and the old covenants.

 

[Hume]

How does it make you feel?

bored

 

[IBDaMann]

I have been studying this for over a half of a century and I can assure you that Catholic doctrine agrees with me that Catholics changed the solemnity of the Sabbath to Sunday at the Council of Laodicia

You actually cannot assure me of that since the Katholica were simply the body of all Christians, not today's separate denomination of Catholics. Your own denomination is just as responsible as Catholics for what you are describing. I hate to splash you with cold water, but you are trying to pin decisions of 4th century AD Christianity onto only one modern-day denomination.

Also, I noticed your pivot to the word "solemnity" which really doesn't mean anything. I'll stipulate that 4th century AD Christians decided to worship on Sunday, so that they weren't worshiping on Saturday like the Jews, but this is a different matter.

According to Catholic tradition, Jesus appointed Saint Peter as the first pope,

No. According to the Bible, Jesus appointed Peter as the first Pope.

Matthew 16:18 (KJV)
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

 

[FastLane]

The issue you have is not understanding the difference between Grace and Works. You cannot get to paradise by following the rules, you must have faith. You really need to ask your pastor about the difference between the new and the old covenants.

I understand works and grace. You follow God's Commandments because you love God more than you love Man. No one makes it into Heaven by their own works we make into heaven by Christ's work. But does that mean we can do anything we want and just depend on grace alone? God forbid

2Jo 1:6
And this is love, that we walk after His commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Tools
Rom 6:15
¶
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Tools
Rom 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Tools
Rom 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Again these saints have the right to the tree of life because they have grace and the do His Commandments because the LOVE God. Rev 22:14

¶
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Tools
Rev 22:15
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[Guno צְבִי]

The Bible refers to Israel as "my son" and "my firstborn son" to describe the special relationship between God and the nation of Israel, similar to a father-son relationship.

 

[FastLane]

You actually cannot assure me of that since the Katholica were simply the body of all Christians, not today's separate denomination of Catholics. Your own denomination is just as responsible as Catholics for what you are describing. I hate to splash you with cold water, but you are trying to pin decisions of 4th century AD Christianity onto only one modern-day denomination.

Also, I noticed your pivot to the word "solemnity" which really doesn't mean anything. I'll stipulate that 4th century AD Christians decided to worship on Sunday, so that they weren't worshiping on Saturday like the Jews, but this is a different matter.


No. According to the Bible, Jesus appointed Peter as the first Pope.

Matthew 16:18 (KJV)
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

My church did not evolve out of the Catholic Church like most Protestant churches have done. No Jesus appointed Peter to spread his gospel not to lead the church of Rome. The Catholic Church says a lot of things. At one time a Catholic Church claimed I have Chrit's foreskin from his circumcision. Every Church wanted tourist to come see their religious relics and donate money while they were there.So having a fantastic religious relic was big business.

During the sermon on the mount Christ warned his followers to flee to the mountains when they saw armies surrounding Jerusalem. When Titus destroyed Jerusalem the Jerusalem church the Nazarenes fled to Pella. One would think the Jeruslem Christians would be very well informed. We have record of them keeping the Sabbath for hundreds of years . In fact there is record of Catholic s who complain that they kept the commandments including the Sabbath.

 

[FastLane]

The Bible refers to Israel as "my son" and "my firstborn son" to describe the special relationship between God and the nation of Israel, similar to a father-son relationship.

Hos 11:1
When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Mat 2:13
¶
And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Tools
Mat 2:14
¶
When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Tools
Mat 2:15
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

 

[IBDaMann]

My church did not evolve out of the Catholic Church like most Protestant churches have done.

Irrelevant. Your church evolved from the Katholica, which is the point of all this.

No Jesus appointed Peter to spread his gospel not to lead the church of Rome.

Incorrect. Jesus appointed Peter to lead Jesus' church. The Bible says so.

The Catholic Church says a lot of things.

All churches do.

At one time a Catholic Church claimed I have Chrit's foreskin from his circumcision.

At one time, the Church of Climate Change claimed that Climate Change was thettled thienth.

Every Church wanted tourist to come see their religious relics and donate money while they were there.So having a fantastic religious relic was big business.

You just described the sports memorabilia industry.

 

[IBDaMann]

Every Church wanted tourist to come see their religious relics and donate money while they were there.So having a fantastic religious relic was big business.

‼ Coincidence alert ‼ The Cathedral in Oviedo, Spain claims to have one of the original water jars used in the miracle at Cana.

 

[FastLane]

Irrelevant. Your church evolved from the Katholica, which is the point of all this.


Incorrect. Jesus appointed Peter to lead Jesus' church. The Bible says so.


All churches do.


At one time, the Church of Climate Change claimed that Climate Change was thettled thienth.


You just described the sports memorabilia industry.

The sports industry has Christ's foreskin????

 

[Ross Dolan]

How does it make you feel?

Looks as though the religious nuts have taken over this thread arguing about stuff like the Saturday/Sunday bullshit, but I would like to detour back to that painting...which was probably done during the late 1940's or very early 1950's.

How does it make me feel? It makes me feel a bit of anger, Stone.

Let me tell you about the typical family of that time. The father worked and the wages for his 40 hours of toil produced a salary which was sufficient to buy a house and see to the mortgage; pay for the car; buy food, clothing and other essentials; put the kids through school; allow for modest vacations; and permitted a few bucks to be stashed away as savings. And the family’s medical needs were met (often as part of the compensation) for that toil.

Mostly the wife did not work. She tended to the house and kids.

Today we have the advantage of what amounts to BILLIONS of mechanical slaves to do the work that has to be done. And if that picture were of a family today, the guy would still be working 40 hours...often barely scraping by. Buying a house for a young man like that today can be a very difficult thing...as would keeping up with the mortgage. The woman would be working also...to help with "getting by." Putting those kids through even a small college could be beyond their means.

BILLIONS OF MECHANICAL SLAVES TO HELP DO WHAT HAS TO BE DONE.

Yeah, I get a bit angry thinking about how much better it could be for everyone...but isn't.