Broken Grading

cawacko

cawacko

Well-known member
The gist of the article is kids believe their grades should be based on effort, not mastery of the subject.

In this world kids think of school like a contract, “I put in the effort, now you owe me an A”.

This is how we get grade inflation. This is how you mask who may be having struggles. There’s an element of resilience that is taken away. Employers notice as well.

I go back to the fact we live in a global world and that this is occurring at our elite schools ultimately has an effect on all of us, as these are our country’s future leaders.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1992968702032072978
View: https://x.com/chronicle/status/1992968702032072978?s=46&t=kOX31MjxS-IJnH5C6XWDGA
 
Instead of the Alphabetic grading system, I think we should be more clear and have grades that describe one's level of mastery of the subject.

It could take one person years to become proficient at something another is proficient in a few months, but how long it takes should not matter once proficiency is attained.

So grades such as, "Master", "Proficient", "Approproching Proficiency" and "Novice".


Effort should not matter, what matters (in education) is the ability.

Sure effort might help one become a "Master" but we are judging mastery, not how hard you try.



In fact, you could grade ones ability to commit effort toward a task as being... "a Master at it", "proficient at it", ect...
 
Jarod said:
Instead of the Alphabetic grading system, I think we should be more clear and have grades that describe one's level of mastery of the subject.

It could take one person years to become proficient at something another is proficient in a few months, but how long it takes should not matter once proficiency is attained.

So grades such as, "Master", "Proficient", "Approproching Proficiency" and "Novice".


Effort should not matter, what matters (in education) is the ability.

Sure effort might help one become a "Master" but we are judging mastery, not how hard you try.



In fact, you could grade ones ability to commit effort toward a task as being... "a Master at it", "proficient at it", ect...
Click to expand...
Harvard, and other schools, can do that but they’ve created this existing system.

Therefore unless all Universities do it together, the individual school will be at a disadvantage.

It’s a system of perverse incentives.
 
Damocles said:
Effort does not equal mastery. You get an "a" if you have mastered the skill, not before.
Click to expand...
We can probably all think of examples of ourselves or someone we know, who spent hours or days studying for an exam and not doing well while someone else puts in a bare minimum of effort does very well.

It may not be “fair” but as stated, we don’t grade on effort.
 
At LSU undergrad in the 70s when the class as a whole did poorly on tests, typically the grades were curved where about 10% received A’s , 20% B’s, 40% C’s, 20% D’s and the rest F’s.
In dental school there was almost never a curve.
93 minimum was A.
69 and below - F.
There were several classes where not one student received a final grade of A. And there were lots of D’s.
Fail one class and you repeated the whole year. Fail two years and you were gone permanently. So one could actually fail two classes in two different years and start looking for another career.
It was survival.
 
cawacko said:
We can probably all think of examples of ourselves or someone we know, who spent hours or days studying for an exam and not doing well while someone else puts in a bare minimum of effort does very well.

It may not be “fair” but as stated, we don’t grade on effort.
Click to expand...
A classmate of mine took a class on ‘how to study’ and the science of learning.
Changed everything for him.
He’d be up to midnight most every night studying.
After the course he’d be finished by 9:00 pm, watch a little TV and be in bed by 10:00.
His grades improved dramatically.
 
Effort towards a subject or task is meaningless if that effort isn't productive. What counts is doing it correctly.

Imagine a simple task like hammering a nail. If you put in lots of effort but never manage to drive the nail into the wood, your effort is meaningless and worthless.

If on the other hand, you get better at this task to the point where you can do it efficiently, quickly, and correctly, that's what counts.
 
cawacko said:
Harvard, and other schools, can do that but they’ve created this existing system.

Therefore unless all Universities do it together, the individual school will be at a disadvantage.

It’s a system of perverse incentives.
Click to expand...
Having been through the College Admission process two times in the last two years... I can tell you it is very misguided and focuses on unhealthy priorities for our Democracy. The system is very rigged.

If you have money to manipulate your kids grades and SAT or ACT scores your kids will get more money and into more prestigious schools despite their ability.


My daughter and a friend of the family's daughter are both applying. I never interceded in my daughter's education regarding grades, but the other girl's (stay at home) mother has done so thought her daughters education. IN middle school she "volunteered" to grade the tests for the teachers, and she explained to me it was so her daughter could be sure to get A's in the advanced classes that would show up on her High School Transcripts. The girl got two B's in high school, but one time the mother (a friend of the teacher) begged the teacher to give her an A, it worked. The other "B" was changed because a friend of the mother pulled a string.

My daughter got straight A's. The other girl had expensive tutors her whole high school, and her transcripts came out with straight A's.

The kids go to the same school, but my daughter is out of district, and goes to the school by attending a program only offered at that school. My daughters program requires her to take some classes that are not 6.0 advanced credit classes, thus my daughter has a lower GPA than the other girl. My daughters class rank is 10th in a class of 500+. The other girl is 4th.

The other girl got lower SAT scores, then her family spend three thousand dollars on SAT classes, my daughter has a great SAT score, but not as high as the other girls post SAT class score.

My daughter spend a week writing her essay, and its great, I did offer some suggestions.

The other girl's mother paid to have an expert write her essay "with" her.


ON paper the other girl looks better than my daughter. They applied to mostly the same schools, we will see how it comes out.

This is how PUBLIC SCHOOL grades are manipulated with money, imagine what happens at the $80,000 private schools.



My other child, who missed straight A's by a mile, had to go to Community College for a semester to get into FSU.
 
Jarod said:
Having been through the College Admission process two times in the last two years... I can tell you it is very misguided and focuses on unhealthy priorities for our Democracy. The system is very rigged.

If you have money to manipulate your kids grades and SAT or ACT scores your kids will get more money and into more prestigious schools despite their ability.


My daughter and a friend of the family's daughter are both applying. I never interceded in my daughter's education regarding grades, but the other girl's (stay at home) mother has done so thought her daughters education. IN middle school she "volunteered" to grade the tests for the teachers, and she explained to me it was so her daughter could be sure to get A's in the advanced classes that would show up on her High School Transcripts. The girl got two B's in high school, but one time the mother (a friend of the teacher) begged the teacher to give her an A, it worked. The other "B" was changed because a friend of the mother pulled a string.

My daughter got straight A's. The other girl had expensive tutors her whole high school, and her transcripts came out with straight A's.

The kids go to the same school, but my daughter is out of district, and goes to the school by attending a program only offered at that school. My daughters program requires her to take some classes that are not 6.0 advanced credit classes, thus my daughter has a lower GPA than the other girl. My daughters class rank is 10th in a class of 500+. The other girl is 4th.

The other girl got lower SAT scores, then her family spend three thousand dollars on SAT classes, my daughter has a great SAT score, but not as high as the other girls post SAT class score.

My daughter spend a week writing her essay, and its great, I did offer some suggestions.

The other girl's mother paid to have an expert write her essay "with" her.


ON paper the other girl looks better than my daughter. They applied to mostly the same schools, we will see how it comes out.

This is how PUBLIC SCHOOL grades are manipulated with money, imagine what happens at the $80,000 private schools.



My other child, who missed straight A's by a mile, had to go to Community College for a semester to get into FSU.
Click to expand...
Wow, my son’s story is polar opposite.
He didn’t bother to even try in h.s. Never did homework, wake up at 10:00 am normally and stroll over to school .
He planned on going to summer school every summer knowing he just had to show up and they’d push him to the next grade. Problem is there was no summer school after senior year. Me and the wife had to write papers to turn in for missed assignments during the entire year.
Eventually he went to aircraft mechanic training at University of Alaska while working part time as a plane mechanic. The work counted towards him getting FAA certification so he didn’t bother getting a degree.
Passed his certification and is miles ahead of me financially at the same age I was.
He’s married, has a nice house and loves his job.
 
anonymoose said:
Wow, my son’s story is polar opposite.
He didn’t bother to even try in h.s. Never did homework, wake up at 10:00 am normally and stroll over to school .
He planned on going to summer school every summer knowing he just had to show up and they’d push him to the next grade. Problem is there was no summer school after senior year. Me and the wife had to write papers to turn in for missed assignments during the entire year.
Eventually he went to aircraft mechanic training at University of Alaska while working part time as a plane mechanic. The work counted towards him getting FAA certification so he didn’t bother getting a degree.
Passed his certification and is miles ahead of me financially at the same age I was.
He’s married, has a nice house and loves his job.
Click to expand...
Congratulations, that is really awesome. It’s absolutely true that not every kid needs to be
College bound. You must be very proud.
 
Jake Starkey said:
Clark County (NV) School District mandates that each student begin a grading term with 50%.

It is an atrocious concept.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t matter to me what they start with they should end with an accurate description of their ability to demonstrate proficiency.
 
anonymoose said:
Wow, my son’s story is polar opposite.
He didn’t bother to even try in h.s. Never did homework, wake up at 10:00 am normally and stroll over to school .
He planned on going to summer school every summer knowing he just had to show up and they’d push him to the next grade. Problem is there was no summer school after senior year. Me and the wife had to write papers to turn in for missed assignments during the entire year.
Eventually he went to aircraft mechanic training at University of Alaska while working part time as a plane mechanic. The work counted towards him getting FAA certification so he didn’t bother getting a degree.
Passed his certification and is miles ahead of me financially at the same age I was.
He’s married, has a nice house and loves his job.
Click to expand...

I have 4 children. 3 are college educated. The oldest has a Bachelors in something, not really sure. She does medical billing and the degree is useless. The middle has a masters in public administration and it is critical to her position as a CPS investigator. Next girl has a BS in psychology and works packaging for Amazon - wasted degree.

The youngest, my son skipped college and works sell machine tools, He makes more than any of the three girls.
 
anonymoose said:
At LSU undergrad in the 70s when the class as a whole did poorly on tests, typically the grades were curved where about 10% received A’s , 20% B’s, 40% C’s, 20% D’s and the rest F’s.
In dental school there was almost never a curve.
93 minimum was A.
69 and below - F.
There were several classes where not one student received a final grade of A. And there were lots of D’s.
Fail one class and you repeated the whole year. Fail two years and you were gone permanently. So one could actually fail two classes in two different years and start looking for another career.
It was survival.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a couple of stories shared of that here. Just a different mindset back then it seems.
 
Jarod said:
Having been through the College Admission process two times in the last two years... I can tell you it is very misguided and focuses on unhealthy priorities for our Democracy. The system is very rigged.

If you have money to manipulate your kids grades and SAT or ACT scores your kids will get more money and into more prestigious schools despite their ability.


My daughter and a friend of the family's daughter are both applying. I never interceded in my daughter's education regarding grades, but the other girl's (stay at home) mother has done so thought her daughters education. IN middle school she "volunteered" to grade the tests for the teachers, and she explained to me it was so her daughter could be sure to get A's in the advanced classes that would show up on her High School Transcripts. The girl got two B's in high school, but one time the mother (a friend of the teacher) begged the teacher to give her an A, it worked. The other "B" was changed because a friend of the mother pulled a string.

My daughter got straight A's. The other girl had expensive tutors her whole high school, and her transcripts came out with straight A's.

The kids go to the same school, but my daughter is out of district, and goes to the school by attending a program only offered at that school. My daughters program requires her to take some classes that are not 6.0 advanced credit classes, thus my daughter has a lower GPA than the other girl. My daughters class rank is 10th in a class of 500+. The other girl is 4th.

The other girl got lower SAT scores, then her family spend three thousand dollars on SAT classes, my daughter has a great SAT score, but not as high as the other girls post SAT class score.

My daughter spend a week writing her essay, and its great, I did offer some suggestions.

The other girl's mother paid to have an expert write her essay "with" her.


ON paper the other girl looks better than my daughter. They applied to mostly the same schools, we will see how it comes out.

This is how PUBLIC SCHOOL grades are manipulated with money, imagine what happens at the $80,000 private schools.



My other child, who missed straight A's by a mile, had to go to Community College for a semester to get into FSU.
Click to expand...
Not that it’s an unworthy topic but you’re shifting to a different issue than what’s being discussed here, which is effort vs mastery.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
I have 4 children. 3 are college educated. The oldest has a Bachelors in something, not really sure. She does medical billing and the degree is useless. The middle has a masters in public administration and it is critical to her position as a CPS investigator. Next girl has a BS in psychology and works packaging for Amazon - wasted degree.

The youngest, my son skipped college and works sell machine tools, He makes more than any of the three girls.
Click to expand...
My youngest is graduating in college this year with a degree in Psychology, but is applying for both Masters and PhD programs currently. I believe if she gets into a Masters over a PhD program she will become a therapist. I do not know what she'll do with the PhD. Though in her college her psy degree is a science degree not an arts degree.
 
Damocles said:
My youngest is graduating in college this year with a degree in Psychology, but is applying for both Masters and PhD programs currently. I believe if she gets into a Masters over a PhD program she will become a therapist. I do not know what she'll do with the PhD. Though in her college her psy degree is a science degree not an arts degree.
Click to expand...
This reminds me of an old joke. Which ends with this:

We all know what B.S. is... an MS is "more of the same" and a PhD is just "piled higher and deeper"...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top