If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

Cypress said:
Timothy is widely not considered to be authentic Pauline letter. It was written by someone else in Paul's name.

In the letters that are universally acknowledged to be authentically written by Paul, women play important roles in his ministry and churches.
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If true then Timothy should be removed!
 
Dutch Uncle said:
No doubt it was partly a reflection of the times, but let's be honest, it's not exactly in line with the teachings of Jesus to demean or downgrade women.

It appears two of the four gospels were not written by those disciples either. The bottom line for me is that the four gospels are the core of Christianity. The rest of the New Testament was written years later. Paul was a johnny-come-lately with a anti-sex fetish. :)

www.catholic.com

Who Really Wrote the Gospels?

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are not just code words for anonymous and unreliable authors of the Gospels. They were real people, divinely inspired.
www.catholic.com www.catholic.com
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You're right about Jesus.

In Galatians, which is universally considered a Pauline letter, Paul taught that there was an essential equality between men and women. That was a radical statement for the first century.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Paul's epistles were written before the gospels.

Luke and Mark were not apostles, but they knew and were taught by the apostles.

I think it was the later bishops and popes who made women second class.
 
Margot said:
If true then Timothy should be removed!
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I don't think at this point it matters that much. All the core essentials of Christian theology, practice, and ethics are established in the seven authentic Pauline epistles. You could just ignore Timothy and it wouldn't change Christianity in any substantial way.
 
Cypress said:
I don't think at this point it matters that much. All the core essentials of Christian theology, practice, and ethics are established in the seven authentic Pauline epistles. You could just ignore Timothy and it wouldn't change Christianity in any substantial way.
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I disagree! Because 1000's of people agree with what they think Paul wrote that women shouldn't lead a Church! Many quit their Church if a women , becomes the leader,thinking they are doing what Jesus wants,because they assume Paul's words are Jesus's through Paul!
 
Margot said:
You should ask him how God wrote it!
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There is no indication anywhere in the Gospels or the epistles that the author is taking dictation from a disembodied voice

Even human beings who are inspired are not infallible and what they write cannot be perfection
 
Cypress said:
There is no indication anywhere in the Gospels or the epistles that the author is taking dictation from a disembodied voice

Even human beings who are inspired are not infallible and what they write cannot be perfection
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So the Bible is just another book,not inspired by YHWH at all?
 
Cypress said:
The claim you and your pastor seemed to be making is that only a book makes one aware of a god. That's obviously false.

Science doesn't prove anything about religion. There are Nobel Prize winners in physics who practice Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism.

Paul didn't have to know. It's self evident. If you and your pastor read Romans, you'd see that Paul is saying even the pagans are aware of a divine providential order and an objective moral law. It didn't require proof. It's self evident in human nature.
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Clicked on the thread, first comment I see and what the hell? Cypress nails it dead-center and Dutchy Boy actually hits the thumbs-up? Did I stumble into a parallel universe or something, lol?Cypress being spot-on didn’t shock me; I’ve seen her drop solid religious takes before. But Dutchy giving the thumbs-up? That one almost broke my brain.

Anyway, you’re 100% right. Anyone who’s spent even five minutes looking at history and religion would never post a thread this brain-dead in the first place. The premise is so laughably ridiculous I’m stunned it’s still breathing. Domer’s takes are legendary stupid, so I walked in biased anyway.

And to pile on, I'll add to your point: every single person alive today, atheist or not, lives and acts exactly as if God exists, whether they know it or not. Let that one marinate for the Domers of the world to chew on before they call me crazy.

I usually steer clear of religion threads here compared to politics. Convincing someone their political worldview is built on sand is tough, but convincing a hardcore atheist they’re a created being instead of a cosmic accident? That’s a whole different war. So I’ll probably stay out of this one, not because I’m making any headway on politics (I’m not), just because I enjoy swinging at political piñatas more on this forum.

Again, great take. Nailed it.
 
Cypress said:
You're right about Jesus.

In Galatians, which is universally considered a Pauline letter, Paul taught that there was an essential equality between men and women. That was a radical statement for the first century.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Paul's epistles were written before the gospels.

Luke and Mark were not apostles, but they knew and were taught by the apostles.

I think it was the later bishops and popes who made women second class.
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Contextomy fallacy.
 
Cypress said:
I didn't say these men weren't inspired. I said they were not taking dictation from a disembodied voice
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Kind of A thin line ! Between inspired and taking dictation from the Holy Spirit! Since you have never claimed to have the Holy Spirit, it's going to be hard to comprehend having the Holy Spirit!
 
Tobytone said:
Clicked on the thread, first comment I see and what the hell? Cypress nails it dead-center and Dutchy Boy actually hits the thumbs-up? Did I stumble into a parallel universe or something, lol?Cypress being spot-on didn’t shock me; I’ve seen her drop solid religious takes before. But Dutchy giving the thumbs-up? That one almost broke my brain.

Anyway, you’re 100% right. Anyone who’s spent even five minutes looking at history and religion would never post a thread this brain-dead in the first place. The premise is so laughably ridiculous I’m stunned it’s still breathing. Domer’s takes are legendary stupid, so I walked in biased anyway.

And to pile on, I'll add to your point: every single person alive today, atheist or not, lives and acts exactly as if God exists, whether they know it or not. Let that one marinate for the Domers of the world to chew on before they call me crazy.

I usually steer clear of religion threads here compared to politics. Convincing someone their political worldview is built on sand is tough, but convincing a hardcore atheist they’re a created being instead of a cosmic accident? That’s a whole different war. So I’ll probably stay out of this one, not because I’m making any headway on politics (I’m not), just because I enjoy swinging at political piñatas more on this forum.

Again, great take. Nailed it.
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You're confused by man made organized religion, which has little in common with a personal relationship with YHWH through the Holy Spirit
 
Margot said:
You're confused by man made organized religion, which has little in common with a personal relationship with YHWH through the Holy Spirit
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Thanks so much for clearing that up, lol. I'll return the favor, you're confused between actual reality and the libtard reality you live in. Hope that helps you as much as you've helped me.
 
Tobytone said:
Thanks so much for clearing that up, lol. I'll return the favor, you're confused between actual reality and the libtard reality you live in. Hope that helps you as much as you've helped me.
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I'm not remotely a liberal! But thanks for assuming that everyone who doesn't kiss Trump ass is a liberal!
 
Tobytone said:
Cypress nails it dead-center and Dutchy Boy actually hits the thumbs-up? Did I stumble into a parallel universe or something, lol?Cypress being spot-on didn’t shock me; I’ve seen her drop solid religious takes before. But Dutchy giving the thumbs-up? That one almost broke my brain.
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@Dutch Uncle does not harbor some genetic hostility towards Christianity.
Tobytone said:
Anyway, you’re 100% right. Anyone who’s spent even five minutes looking at history and religion would never post a thread this brain-dead in the first place. The premise is so laughably ridiculous I’m stunned it’s still breathing.
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I've routinely made the observation that a genuine atheist - someone who is atheist to the bone - are rare. It's very difficult to actually believe and defend a strictly physical materialist worldview, And acting as if there is an absolute sense of right and wrong without some kind of standard independent of human opinion is an illusion.
 
Cypress said:
@Dutch Uncle does not harbor some genetic hostility towards Christianity.

I've routinely made the observation that a genuine atheist - someone who is atheist to the bone - are rare. It's very difficult to actually believe and defend a strictly physical materialist worldview, And acting as if there is an absolute sense of right and wrong without some kind of standard independent of human opinion is an illusion.
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Atheists don't particularly claim an absolute 'right or wrong'.

Most that I know claim that following the law is 'right' and not following the law is 'wrong'; they do generally disrespect dictators and oligarchs, since their 'law' is often used for cruelty.

It's essentially a pacifist type of view.
 
Into the Night said:
Atheists don't particularly claim an absolute 'right or wrong'.
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Most people, including atheists and agnostics, will point to certain actions and outcomes as cruel and unjust, as if it were objectively true and not just a matter of opinion or cultural convention.
Into the Night said:
Most that I know claim that following the law is 'right'

It's essentially a pacifist type of view.
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Pacifism isn't atheist in principle.

Conscientious objectors to war and military service in this country traditionally came out of a religious belief system, specifically the Quakers, the Mennonites, the Amish, etc
 
Margot said:
You're confused by man made organized religion, which has little in common with a personal relationship with YHWH through the Holy Spirit
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3 in one triune god

three-stooges-oy-vey.gif
 
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