Scott
Verified User
Agreed, but I strongly suspect that not every husband would get divorced over it. I think of it as similar to someone cheating on their spouse. It certainly -can- lead to divorce, but not always.
Why women have abortions
- Thread starter Scott
- Start date
Agreed, but I strongly suspect that not every husband would get divorced over it. I think of it as similar to someone cheating on their spouse. It certainly -can- lead to divorce, but not always.
Scott
Verified User
No, you muddied what I said, which was that I think that the wife had a right to have an abortion, to something dangerously ambiguous. I certainly agree that some on the right consider a wife having an abortion to be the same thing as killing a husband's child, but the problem with that wording is that the -age- of the "living human", as I know right wingers also like to say, becomes hopelessly ambiguous. A child can be a fetus, a baby, a teen, an adult or an elderly citizen. I strongly suspect that your goal, whether conscious or unconscious, is to purposely muddy the waters so that people aren't sure what stage of development the "living human" is at.
I imagine you believe that the "Party of Death" is democrats. I certainly believe that the democratic party has their flaws, for instance on many issues regarding Covid, but when it comes to abortion, I firmly believe they're on the right side of history. No woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy they don't want to term. Furthermore, Republicans tend to only care about "living humans" until birth. After that, well...
Republicans Only Care About Children Before They’re Born
When it comes down to it, most Republicans don’t give a rat’s ass about US children.
truthout.org
Scott
Verified User
No "supremacy" here. Everyone has to live with the decisions they make. Matt Dilon focused on certain decisions made by the wife of his friend, namely to abort the fetus to whom he would apparently have been the biological father and to not tell him of her decision prior to the abortion or even after having had it. Left unsaid is that the husband also made a pivotal decision- to divorce his wife because of the aforementioned decisions. As I said, it's certainly his right to do so and it may well have been the best decision- for him.
I think it's probably good to consider this from my own perspective- I've never been married and at age 49, I suspect I may never get married either. I may also never have children. Now, let's do a little hypothetical scenario- suppose I -had- gotten married (I once was considering it) and my wife decided to do what Matt's friend's wife did. Like Matt's friend, I too could have decided to divorce my wife. After that decision, I certainly think it's possibly that I might never get married again and ultimately have no children. Or I could have persuaded my wife to try to get pregnant again and this time carry her pregnancy to term.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
yes. evil always presents itself as the rational choice.After discussing why women have abortions in another thread whose topic definitely isn't abortions, I decided it would be better to make a thread for the subject instead. Below is an excerpt from an article that lists the different reasons women have abortions:
**
Generally, people use the term “abortion” to refer to the intentional termination of a pregnancy.
The vast majority of abortions take place early in pregnancy. In 2020, 93.1% of abortions in the United States occurred at 13 weeks’ gestation or sooner.
The Turnaway study followed 954 people from across the United States who sought abortions between 2008 and 2010 to learn the reasons for and effects of pursuing pregnancy termination.
The responses fell into several broad themes, with many people reporting that a combination of factors influenced the decision.
Financial circumstances
Around 40% of people mentioned a financial reason for needing an abortion. Most of them had general financial concerns or said they could not afford to support a child.
Around 4% said a lack of employment contributed to their decision, and 0.6% said they terminated their pregnancies because of a lack of insurance or government assistance.
Timing
More than one-third (36%) of study participants cited reasons relating to timing. Some felt they were not emotionally or financially ready to have a baby, while others felt they were too old to have a child.
Partner-related reasons
Almost one-third (31%) of study participants gave reasons relating to their partner.
For example, some said they did not have a good or stable relationship with their partner or that their partner was unsupportive. Around 8% wanted to get married before having children. Others mentioned that they had a partner who was abusive or who did not want the baby.
Other responsibilities
Around 29% of people mentioned they needed to focus on their other children. They said they already felt overextended with their current children and would be overwhelmed by having another. A small percentage of people thought that having a baby would adversely affect their other children and quality of life.
Additionally, about 20% of people reported having an abortion because the timing would interfere with their future opportunities and goals. They felt they could not continue their education or advance their careers while raising a baby.
Emotions and mental health
Around 19% of people in the study expressed that they were emotionally or mentally unprepared for a child. They mentioned not having the mental capacity to have a baby or not feeling mentally stable enough to raise a child.
Other health-related reasons
Approximately 12% of individuals mentioned health-related reasons for having an abortion, such as:
- concerns for their health
- concerns for the health of the fetus
- drug, tobacco, or alcohol use
- non-illegal prescription drug or birth control use
- worsening of existing health issues, such as back pain and diabetes
- mental health concerns
- the effect of medications for existing health conditions on the fetus
Inability to provide for a baby
Some people — around 12% — chose abortion because of their desire for a better life for the child than they could provide. They mentioned feeling inadequate and unable to care for themselves or a child.
Other people said their housing situation was unsuitable for a baby.
Not independent or mature enough for a baby
Just under 7% of people reported a lack of maturity or said they had to rely on other people. Some explained that they felt they were too young for a baby and were unprepared for parenthood.
Influences from family and friends
About 5% of people described influences from family and friends as a reason they chose abortion. They worried that a child would be a strain on their family or that they would experience judgment from others.
Some people had an abortion because they were too scared to tell their parents about their pregnancy, while a small proportion had pressure from family to end their pregnancy.
**
Full article:
The reasons for abortion: Statistics, safety, and access
There are many reasons for abortion, ranging from serious health risks and family planning to financial concerns. Learn more here.www.medicalnewstoday.com
see Nazis and eugenics.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
if you have a problem with the wording that means you know its evil.No, you muddied what I said, which was that I think that the wife had a right to have an abortion, to something dangerously ambiguous. I certainly agree that some on the right consider a wife having an abortion to be the same thing as killing a husband's child, but the problem with that wording is that the -age- of the "living human", as I know right wingers also like to say, becomes hopelessly ambiguous. A child can be a fetus, a baby, a teen, an adult or an elderly citizen. I strongly suspect that your goal, whether conscious or unconscious, is to purposely muddy the waters so that people aren't sure what stage of development the "living human" is at.
I imagine you believe that the "Party of Death" is democrats. I certainly believe that the democratic party has their flaws, for instance on many issues regarding Covid, but when it comes to abortion, I firmly believe they're on the right side of history. No woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy they don't want to term. Furthermore, Republicans tend to only care about "living humans" until birth. After that, well...
Republicans Only Care About Children Before They’re Born
When it comes down to it, most Republicans don’t give a rat’s ass about US children.
you're just sloganeering, baby murder lover.
Scott
Verified User
The word child has many definitions. One of them is certainly that of the relationship, specifically that someone is a child of their parents. But that's not the only meaning, and that's where things get ambigous. I get into those other meanings further down in the post you're responding to, let's get to that now...
On the contrary, it is of the utmost relevance when talking about abortions. Those against abortions like to muddy the water by using words like "child" or "living human" to obscure the fact that abortions are only performed to remove human fetuses from pregnant women who have decided that having an abortion is the best option.
No, all you did was muddy the waters. For any audience member who didn't see my original post or even just forgot what I said in it, here's what I -actually- said:
**
The critical point here is this: is it better for a female to have an abortion when she's not able to properly care for a child and perhaps at a later date, get pregnant again when she -is- ready, or go through with the pregnancy and condemn both her and the child she has to low prospects of having a good life?
**
I'm not saying that IBDaMann and others on the right are -consciously- trying to muddy the waters, but it's what they're doing.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
you're alone because you simp for demons.
Scott
Verified User
yes. evil always presents itself as the rational choice.After discussing why women have abortions in another thread whose topic definitely isn't abortions, I decided it would be better to make a thread for the subject instead. Below is an excerpt from an article that lists the different reasons women have abortions:
**
Generally, people use the term “abortion” to refer to the intentional termination of a pregnancy.
The vast majority of abortions take place early in pregnancy. In 2020, 93.1% of abortions in the United States occurred at 13 weeks’ gestation or sooner.
The Turnaway study followed 954 people from across the United States who sought abortions between 2008 and 2010 to learn the reasons for and effects of pursuing pregnancy termination.
The responses fell into several broad themes, with many people reporting that a combination of factors influenced the decision.
Financial circumstances
Around 40% of people mentioned a financial reason for needing an abortion. Most of them had general financial concerns or said they could not afford to support a child.
Around 4% said a lack of employment contributed to their decision, and 0.6% said they terminated their pregnancies because of a lack of insurance or government assistance.
Timing
More than one-third (36%) of study participants cited reasons relating to timing. Some felt they were not emotionally or financially ready to have a baby, while others felt they were too old to have a child.
Partner-related reasons
Almost one-third (31%) of study participants gave reasons relating to their partner.
For example, some said they did not have a good or stable relationship with their partner or that their partner was unsupportive. Around 8% wanted to get married before having children. Others mentioned that they had a partner who was abusive or who did not want the baby.
Other responsibilities
Around 29% of people mentioned they needed to focus on their other children. They said they already felt overextended with their current children and would be overwhelmed by having another. A small percentage of people thought that having a baby would adversely affect their other children and quality of life.
Additionally, about 20% of people reported having an abortion because the timing would interfere with their future opportunities and goals. They felt they could not continue their education or advance their careers while raising a baby.
Emotions and mental health
Around 19% of people in the study expressed that they were emotionally or mentally unprepared for a child. They mentioned not having the mental capacity to have a baby or not feeling mentally stable enough to raise a child.
Other health-related reasons
Approximately 12% of individuals mentioned health-related reasons for having an abortion, such as:
- concerns for their health
- concerns for the health of the fetus
- drug, tobacco, or alcohol use
- non-illegal prescription drug or birth control use
- worsening of existing health issues, such as back pain and diabetes
- mental health concerns
- the effect of medications for existing health conditions on the fetus
Inability to provide for a baby
Some people — around 12% — chose abortion because of their desire for a better life for the child than they could provide. They mentioned feeling inadequate and unable to care for themselves or a child.
Other people said their housing situation was unsuitable for a baby.
Not independent or mature enough for a baby
Just under 7% of people reported a lack of maturity or said they had to rely on other people. Some explained that they felt they were too young for a baby and were unprepared for parenthood.
Influences from family and friends
About 5% of people described influences from family and friends as a reason they chose abortion. They worried that a child would be a strain on their family or that they would experience judgment from others.
Some people had an abortion because they were too scared to tell their parents about their pregnancy, while a small proportion had pressure from family to end their pregnancy.
**
Full article:
The reasons for abortion: Statistics, safety, and access
There are many reasons for abortion, ranging from serious health risks and family planning to financial concerns. Learn more here.
I don't believe evil presents anything. I think The American Heritage Dictionary, 5th Edition's first definition of the term is good for the purposes of our discussion here:
**
Morally bad or wrong; wicked.
**
Source:
The question then becomes, who determines what is "morally bad or wrong"? The short answer is that we all do. When it comes to societies, lawmakers tend to make laws that are designed to prevent people from doing things that the believe are morally wrong. Clearly, when it comes to abortion, lawmakers have decided different things in different countries and, in a case like the United States, in different states.
We can certainly agree that the Nazis did a lot of evil things. Eugenics is a bit more complicated. I think that Wikipedia's introduction to the subject is good:
**
Eugenics [a] is a set of beliefs and practices that aim to improve the genetic quality of a human population. [2][3][4] Historically, eugenicists have attempted to alter the frequency of various human phenotypes by inhibiting the fertility of those considered inferior, or promoting that of those considered superior.[5]
The contemporary history of eugenics began in the late 19th century, when a popular eugenics movement emerged in the United Kingdom,[6] and then spread to many countries, including the United States, Canada, Australia,[7] and most European countries (e.g., Sweden and Germany).
Historically, the idea of eugenics has been used to argue for a broad array of practices ranging from prenatal care for mothers deemed genetically desirable to the forced sterilization and murder of those deemed unfit.[5] To population geneticists, the term has included the avoidance of inbreeding without altering allele frequencies; for example, British-Indian scientist J. B. S. Haldane wrote in 1940 that "the motor bus, by breaking up inbred village communities, was a powerful eugenic agent."[8] Debate as to what qualifies as eugenics continues today.[9]
A progressive social movement promoting eugenics had originated in the 19th century,[10][11][12] with diverse support, but by the mid 20th century the term was closely associated with scientific racism and authoritarian coercion. With modern medical genetics, genetic testing and counseling have become common, and new or liberal eugenics rejects coercive programs in favor of individual parental choice.[13]
**
Source:
Eugenics - Wikipedia
Scott
Verified User
if you have a problem with the wording that means you know its evil.No, you muddied what I said, which was that I think that the wife had a right to have an abortion, to something dangerously ambiguous. I certainly agree that some on the right consider a wife having an abortion to be the same thing as killing a husband's child, but the problem with that wording is that the -age- of the "living human", as I know right wingers also like to say, becomes hopelessly ambiguous. A child can be a fetus, a baby, a teen, an adult or an elderly citizen. I strongly suspect that your goal, whether conscious or unconscious, is to purposely muddy the waters so that people aren't sure what stage of development the "living human" is at.
I imagine you believe that the "Party of Death" is democrats. I certainly believe that the democratic party has their flaws, for instance on many issues regarding Covid, but when it comes to abortion, I firmly believe they're on the right side of history. No woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy they don't want to term. Furthermore, Republicans tend to only care about "living humans" until birth. After that, well...
Republicans Only Care About Children Before They’re Born
When it comes down to it, most Republicans don’t give a rat’s ass about US children.
I have a problem with people using ambiguous words like "baby", "child" and "living human" instead of fetus or human fetus because it muddies the waters as what is actually happening as well as what people actually believe. As a case in point, it allows people such as yourself to label those who advocate for a woman's right to have abortions to be called 'baby murder lovers'.
Scott
Verified User
Now you're just going off the deep end.
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Fuck off with that relative morality bullshit.I don't believe evil presents anything. I think The American Heritage Dictionary, 5th Edition's first definition of the term is good for the purposes of our discussion here:
**
Morally bad or wrong; wicked.
**
Source:
The question then becomes, who determines what is "morally bad or wrong"? The short answer is that we all do. When it comes to societies, lawmakers tend to make laws that are designed to prevent people from doing things that the believe are morally wrong. Clearly, when it comes to abortion, lawmakers have decided different things in different countries and, in a case like the United States, in different states.
We can certainly agree that the Nazis did a lot of evil things. Eugenics is a bit more complicated. I think that Wikipedia's introduction to the subject is good:
**
Eugenics [a] is a set of beliefs and practices that aim to improve the genetic quality of a human population. [2][3][4] Historically, eugenicists have attempted to alter the frequency of various human phenotypes by inhibiting the fertility of those considered inferior, or promoting that of those considered superior.[5]
The contemporary history of eugenics began in the late 19th century, when a popular eugenics movement emerged in the United Kingdom,[6] and then spread to many countries, including the United States, Canada, Australia,[7] and most European countries (e.g., Sweden and Germany).
Historically, the idea of eugenics has been used to argue for a broad array of practices ranging from prenatal care for mothers deemed genetically desirable to the forced sterilization and murder of those deemed unfit.[5] To population geneticists, the term has included the avoidance of inbreeding without altering allele frequencies; for example, British-Indian scientist J. B. S. Haldane wrote in 1940 that "the motor bus, by breaking up inbred village communities, was a powerful eugenic agent."[8] Debate as to what qualifies as eugenics continues today.[9]
A progressive social movement promoting eugenics had originated in the 19th century,[10][11][12] with diverse support, but by the mid 20th century the term was closely associated with scientific racism and authoritarian coercion. With modern medical genetics, genetic testing and counseling have become common, and new or liberal eugenics rejects coercive programs in favor of individual parental choice.[13]
**
Source:
Eugenics - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Objective morality set by God is the standard by which all others are measured, whether you like it or not.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
yes.I don't believe evil presents anything. I think The American Heritage Dictionary, 5th Edition's first definition of the term is good for the purposes of our discussion here:
**
Morally bad or wrong; wicked.
**
Source:
The question then becomes, who determines what is "morally bad or wrong"? The short answer is that we all do. When it comes to societies, lawmakers tend to make laws that are designed to prevent people from doing things that the believe are morally wrong. Clearly, when it comes to abortion, lawmakers have decided different things in different countries and, in a case like the United States, in different states.
We can certainly agree that the Nazis did a lot of evil things. Eugenics is a bit more complicated. I think that Wikipedia's introduction to the subject is good:
**
Eugenics [a] is a set of beliefs and practices that aim to improve the genetic quality of a human population. [2][3][4] Historically, eugenicists have attempted to alter the frequency of various human phenotypes by inhibiting the fertility of those considered inferior, or promoting that of those considered superior.[5]
The contemporary history of eugenics began in the late 19th century, when a popular eugenics movement emerged in the United Kingdom,[6] and then spread to many countries, including the United States, Canada, Australia,[7] and most European countries (e.g., Sweden and Germany).
Historically, the idea of eugenics has been used to argue for a broad array of practices ranging from prenatal care for mothers deemed genetically desirable to the forced sterilization and murder of those deemed unfit.[5] To population geneticists, the term has included the avoidance of inbreeding without altering allele frequencies; for example, British-Indian scientist J. B. S. Haldane wrote in 1940 that "the motor bus, by breaking up inbred village communities, was a powerful eugenic agent."[8] Debate as to what qualifies as eugenics continues today.[9]
A progressive social movement promoting eugenics had originated in the 19th century,[10][11][12] with diverse support, but by the mid 20th century the term was closely associated with scientific racism and authoritarian coercion. With modern medical genetics, genetic testing and counseling have become common, and new or liberal eugenics rejects coercive programs in favor of individual parental choice.[13]
**
Source:
Eugenics - Wikipedia
you embrace evil and eugenics.
that's what I was saying.
you're still trying to sloganeer your way out of hell.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
still sloganeering.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
that's you, demon-lover baby murderer.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
prenatal care is not eugenics. -- Muddy Waters.
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
It was weird joke and a point at the same time.Muddy Waters?
"I'll be your dog" Muddy Waters?
'prenatal care is not eugenics' is the point.
having muddy waters say lt is a call back and a reference to sloganeering and wordsmithing as referenced earlier.
they ain't all gems.
After discussing why women have abortions in another thread whose topic definitely isn't abortions, I decided it would be better to make a thread for the subject instead. Below is an excerpt from an article that lists the different reasons women have abortions:
**
Generally, people use the term “abortion” to refer to the intentional termination of a pregnancy.
The vast majority of abortions take place early in pregnancy. In 2020, 93.1% of abortions in the United States occurred at 13 weeks’ gestation or sooner.
The Turnaway study followed 954 people from across the United States who sought abortions between 2008 and 2010 to learn the reasons for and effects of pursuing pregnancy termination.
The responses fell into several broad themes, with many people reporting that a combination of factors influenced the decision.
Financial circumstances
Around 40% of people mentioned a financial reason for needing an abortion. Most of them had general financial concerns or said they could not afford to support a child.
Around 4% said a lack of employment contributed to their decision, and 0.6% said they terminated their pregnancies because of a lack of insurance or government assistance.
Timing
More than one-third (36%) of study participants cited reasons relating to timing. Some felt they were not emotionally or financially ready to have a baby, while others felt they were too old to have a child.
Partner-related reasons
Almost one-third (31%) of study participants gave reasons relating to their partner.
For example, some said they did not have a good or stable relationship with their partner or that their partner was unsupportive. Around 8% wanted to get married before having children. Others mentioned that they had a partner who was abusive or who did not want the baby.
Other responsibilities
Around 29% of people mentioned they needed to focus on their other children. They said they already felt overextended with their current children and would be overwhelmed by having another. A small percentage of people thought that having a baby would adversely affect their other children and quality of life.
Additionally, about 20% of people reported having an abortion because the timing would interfere with their future opportunities and goals. They felt they could not continue their education or advance their careers while raising a baby.
Emotions and mental health
Around 19% of people in the study expressed that they were emotionally or mentally unprepared for a child. They mentioned not having the mental capacity to have a baby or not feeling mentally stable enough to raise a child.
Other health-related reasons
Approximately 12% of individuals mentioned health-related reasons for having an abortion, such as:
- concerns for their health
- concerns for the health of the fetus
- drug, tobacco, or alcohol use
- non-illegal prescription drug or birth control use
- worsening of existing health issues, such as back pain and diabetes
- mental health concerns
- the effect of medications for existing health conditions on the fetus
Inability to provide for a baby
Some people — around 12% — chose abortion because of their desire for a better life for the child than they could provide. They mentioned feeling inadequate and unable to care for themselves or a child.
Other people said their housing situation was unsuitable for a baby.
Not independent or mature enough for a baby
Just under 7% of people reported a lack of maturity or said they had to rely on other people. Some explained that they felt they were too young for a baby and were unprepared for parenthood.
Influences from family and friends
About 5% of people described influences from family and friends as a reason they chose abortion. They worried that a child would be a strain on their family or that they would experience judgment from others.
Some people had an abortion because they were too scared to tell their parents about their pregnancy, while a small proportion had pressure from family to end their pregnancy.
**
Full article:
The reasons for abortion: Statistics, safety, and access
There are many reasons for abortion, ranging from serious health risks and family planning to financial concerns. Learn more here.
Rubbish. They have babies because they can't say no and don't use birth control.
Duh. We all know how women get pregnant; it's time to stop making up stupid excuses for 95% of abortion reasons. Most people accept medical reasons and rape as legitimate reasons, but the rest is just poor self-control, dope and booze use, and irresponsible self-indulgence.
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Women like being fertilized. I lost a good woman because I pulled out.
Lesson learned.
If only your mom had had one - we'd never have had to deal with your moronic bullshit!42% were getting their second or more abortion......that begins to sound like a lifestyle choice.
One in Four US Women Expected to Have an Abortion in Their Lifetime
www.guttmacher.org