Ignorance and the Bible

[Ross Dolan]

Or implicit atheism.

That one's cool because it's how science is done.



I think you are stuck only on Explicit atheism. I agree there is no way to prove the statement "There is no God". But there is no problem whatsoever with simply not believing in God.

The lack of belief is not a belief. Ergo doesn't require any positive proof.

One...I am not one of those people who hate atheists.

Two...I think of them the way I think of theists...people who are unwilling to acknowledge that we do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence. They, like theists, have to "believe" things about the REALITY...which is to say that they make essentially blind guesses about the REALITY.

The bullshit about explicit and implicit atheism is just that...BULLSHIT. It is almost certain that all people who choose to use the self-descriptor "atheist" do so because of "belief" (guesses). It is time for atheists to stop the pretense and acknowledge that they use "atheist" because of "beliefs"...NOT BECAUSE OF A LACK OF BELIEF.

 

[gmark77]

One...I am not one of those people who hate atheists.

Good for you.

The bullshit about explicit and implicit atheism is just that...BULLSHIT.

That's interesting. Because your philosophy such as it has been presented on JPP is bullshit too.

See how that works?

It is time for atheists to stop the pretense and acknowledge that they use "atheist" because of "beliefs"...NOT BECAUSE OF A LACK OF BELIEF.

Just because you can't possibly understand implicit atheism is not a problem for me. hate away.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed. No miracles necessary.

If anything, it proves that it's difficult to kill an idea. While Jesus may have not been the first to offer the messages he brought to Judea, he certainly popularized them. Many of his ideas appear Eastern in nature. The fact the Bible only mentions him from age 12, which may be mainly fabrication, until his arrival in Jerusalem in his early 30s leaves plenty of time for him to have traveled the trade routes east and learned about Eastern philosophy and religions.

King's Highway (ancient) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think you're right.

What made the movement so powerful was a genuine belief in the redeeming power of the resurrection, and the message of social justice, salvation, and equality implicit in the teachings.

The Hellenized world of that time meant there was contact with Persia, central Asia, India so your comment overlap with eastern ideas seems germane.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I hope I didn't say that anywhere? I"m not superior to anyone.

Scroll up. Another reason why I know you are young.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I think you're right.

What made the movement so powerful was a genuine belief in the redeeming power of the resurrection, and the message of social justice, salvation, and equality implicit in the teachings.

The Hellenized world of that time meant there was contact with Persia, central Asia, India so your comment overlap with eastern ideas seems germane.

It's a good message. Humans have fucked it up over the years, but it's still true.

 

[gmark77]

Scroll up. Another reason why I know you are young.

I never claimed superiority to anyone.

 

[Cypress]

I was an atheist from about age 14 to 16. Again, it seems to be mostly a province of young, white males rebelling against authority. Most outgrow it. Not necessarily atheism itself, but whining about it.

I flirted with atheism about 20 years ago, but after thinking a lot about it I decided I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

 

[gmark77]

I flirted with atheism about 20 years ago, but after thinking a lot about it I decided I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

Then you didn't learn enough about atheism. Implicit atheism is your friend.

ANd the cool thing about implicit atheism is you already use it in your every-day life!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I never claimed superiority to anyone.

QED

You don't have to say the exact words, son. As I previously posted, it's how you respond to others that makes it come across that you believe you are superior to anyone who believes there's more to existence than the natural universe. No worries. Many 20 to 30somethings believe the world began with themselves.

FWIW, both Stalin and Mao were atheists. They murdered millions in an attempt to stamp out religion. They failed. Why?

While it's possible to have morals without religion, it's also easier to commit mass murder without it too. After all, all morals are relative to atheists, amirite?

Heck, if people can commit mass murder with religion then it's certainly easier without it. LOL

 

[gmark77]

QED

You don't have to say the exact words, son. As I previously posted, it's how you respond to others that makes it come across that you believe you are superior to anyone who believes there's more to existence than the natural universe. No worries. Many 20 to 30somethings believe the world began with themselves.

FWIW, both Stalin and Mao were atheists. They murdered millions in an attempt to stamp out religion. They failed. Why?

While it's possible to have morals without religion, it's also easier to commit mass murder without it too. After all, all morals are relative to atheists, amirite?

Heck, if people can commit mass murder with religion then it's certainly easier without it. LOL

I never claimed superiority to anyone. Regardless of what Stalin did.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I flirted with atheism about 20 years ago, but after thinking a lot about it I decided I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

They do appear to be ardent believers even if their numbers are very few and mostly limited to 20something Euro-American males.

The numbers of those who believe "when you're dead, you're dead" are even fewer.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I never claimed superiority to anyone. Regardless of what Stalin did.

QED on why I know you are young.

 

[Cypress]

They do appear to be ardent believers even if their numbers are very few and mostly limited to 20something Euro-American males.

The numbers of those who believe "when you're dead, you're dead" are even fewer.

I just couldn't get over the hump of believing something can come from nothing; design and order comes from random chance; that physical matter and energy can explain all about life, the universe, and everything.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I just couldn't get over the hump of believing something can come from nothing; design and order comes from random chance; that physical matter and energy can explain all about life, the universe, and everything.

I remember a George Carlin album talking about being Catholic and asking the priest difficult questions. The answer was usually "Well, it's a mystery". True!

One doesn't have to believe in some old geezer sitting on a golden throne surrounded by adoring fans single Hosannas in order to believe there is something more to existence than what is in front of our noses. Believing we're of no more value than a light bulb or that massacring millions of people can be justified is equally implausible to me.

Add to this that human beings seem to have three natures; physical, mental and spiritual. IMO, ardent "when you're dead, you're dead" atheists are lacking something akin to a person being color-blind. The fact they are so few in number over the centuries adds to this perception.

 

[Cypress]

Then you didn't learn enough about atheism. Implicit atheism is your friend.

ANd the cool thing about implicit atheism is you already use it in your every-day life!

Sorry, no offense but I'm not buying these word games about soft atheism versus hard atheism.

Atheists have to believe in something. They can't just sit in the bleachers and complain about the Old Testament but then hightail it for the hills whenever someone asks about their beliefs, and the reasons for their beliefs.

Atheists, practically by definition, have to believe that matter and energy is all there is, and that life, the universe, and everything can be explained by physical materialism.

If they start telling me there might be something beyond matter and energy, something transcendental, then they acquire the label agnostic, mystic, or pantheist, at the very least.

 

[gmark77]

I just couldn't get over the hump of believing something can come from nothing

EXCEPT God, right?

That's it isn't it? YOUR hypothesis is God. Where did God come from?

You can't answer. Because you know it would place your hypothesis on exactly the same footing as the atheist hypothesis you reject.

QED.

 

[gmark77]

Sorry, no offense but I'm not buying these word games about soft atheism versus hard atheism.

I don't really care that you dismiss a bunch of people just because you don't like their philosophy. It isn't a word game.

Atheists have to believe in something.

No they do not.

I can prove it to you. YOU do the exact same thing with claims every single day. I know it 100% correctly. If you reject implicit atheism then you reject how you work on a daily basis.

Let me prove it to you:

I can see the future and I know with perfect knowledge what is going to happen in the future.​

Do you BELIEVE me? Or do you simply have no way to assess whether I'm telling the truth or not?

Or do you simply NOT believe me?

Again, quod erat demonstrandum.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Good for you.

Thank you.

That's interesting. Because your philosophy such as it has been presented on JPP is bullshit too.

See how that works?

My philosophy on whether there is at least one god or none...is that I do not know.

That is not bullshit.

Your philosophy that there are none...or that it is more likely that there are none...

...is total bullshit.

That is how it works.

Just because you can't possibly understand implicit atheism is not a problem for me. hate away.

I understand implicit atheisms totally.

It is total bullshit. You are pretending you do not "believe" there are no gods nor that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is one.

That, even you know, IS BULLSHIT.

I can understand why theists make the blind guess they do about a god. They fear retribution from that god if they doubt it.

Atheists want to mock theists for their blind guesses...and in order to do so, pretend they are not making blind guesses also.

Hey...no problem. Nothing wrong with pretending.

You must be satisfied with doing it.

I will not hate you.

 

[gmark77]

Thank you.







My philosophy on whether there is at least one god or none...is that I do not know.

That is not bullshit.

Your philosophy that there are none...or that it is more likely that there are none...

...is total bullshit.

That is how it works.

I understand implicit atheisms totally.

It is total bullshit. You are pretending you do not "believe" there are no gods nor that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is one.

That, even you know, IS BULLSHIT.

I can understand why theists make the blind guess they do about a god. They fear retribution from that god if they doubt it.

Atheists want to mock theists for their blind guesses...and in order to do so, pretend they are not making blind guesses also.

Hey...no problem. Nothing wrong with pretending.

You must be satisfied with doing it.

I will not hate you.

I have determined that you don't believe what you claim you believe.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I have determined that you don't believe what you claim you believe.

Makes no sense.

I have not claimed to "believe" anything.