An Inquiry into the Logical Basis of the Germ Theory | Mike Stone

Scott

Verified User
On a few occassions, posters have brought up their belief in the Germ Theory of disease. I think that it has serious flaws. But before we can have a good discussion on it, we need to define Germ Theory. I think most if not everyone here would agree to Wikipedia's introduction to the term, so I'll put it up below:
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The germ theory of disease is the currently accepted scientific theory for many diseases. It states that microorganisms known as pathogens or "germs" can cause disease. These small organisms, which are too small to be seen without magnification, invade animals, plants, and even bacteria. Their growth and reproduction within their hosts can cause disease. "Germ" refers not just to bacteria but to any type of microorganism, such as protists or fungi, or other pathogens, including parasites, viruses, prions, or viroids.[1]
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Alright, with that out of the way, I'll now quote from the introduction and conclusion of Mike Stone's article that shares the title of this thread:
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To those familiar with my work, it comes as no surprise that I take great interest in highlighting the forgotten voices from the formative years of germ “theory” and virology—those who examined the rise of these pseudoscientific fields with critical eyes. These individuals had front-row seats to history, and they witnessed firsthand the unscientific, contradictory foundations that shaped our modern beliefs about health, disease, and wellness. They recognized the manipulation by vested interests and warned against the manufactured acceptance of germ “theory” by a fearful, uninformed public. And they spoke out—attempting to avert what they foresaw as a grave disaster.

Amongst the earliest of these voices was the great French chemist Antoine Béchamp, a rival of Pasteur and proponent of the competing terrain theory. He astutely recognized how the public had been misled in the preface to his 1867 publication La Théorie du Microzyma (translation from Bechamp or Pasteur: A Lost Chapter in the History of Biology):

“The general public, however intelligent, are struck only by that which it takes little trouble to understand. They have been told that the interior of the body is something more or less like the contents of a vessel filled with wine, and that this interior is not injured – that we do not become ill, except when germs, originally created morbid, penetrate into it from without, and then become microbes.
The public do not know whether this is true; they do not even know what a microbe is, but they take it on the word of the master; they believe it because it is simple and easy to understand; they believe and they repeat that the microbe makes us ill without inquiring further, because they have not the leisure – nor, perhaps, the capacity – to probe to the depths that which they are asked to believe.”

Decades before germ “theory” reached mainstream dominance, American physician Dr. Edward P. Hurd raised concerns about its flawed logic. In his 1874 paper On the Germ Theory of Disease, Hurd questioned whether germs were truly the cause of disease rather than mere byproducts of it. He specifically criticized the fallacy of affirming the consequent—the mistaken belief that if cause A (a germ) is always found with effect B (a disease), then A must have caused B. Hurd pointed out that simply showing a germ is always present with a disease does not prove causation. To establish a valid causal link, one must introduce the germ into a healthy environment and observe whether the disease follows—something germ theorists had failed to do:

“There is no proof that all that have as yet been found are not accompaniments, or effects, and not causes of the diseased conditions with which they are found associated. Halber has not yet completed the cycle of proof necessary to establish tho causal nexus between one single disease and the micrococcus found witli that disease. He has relied exclusively on what logicians call the method of agreement—the method of difference he has not tried. It is of little account for him to show that the supposed cause A always exists with the disease B, and hence B is the effect of A. Into a preexisting set of circumstances where B does not exist he must introduce A and produce the disease. This he has not attempted, and hence his speculations are of little worth.”
[snip]
In essence, Dr. Leverson ends where he began: arguing that the germ “theory,” when stripped of its rhetorical armor and emotional sway, fails to meet even the most basic standards of logic and science—and that only by returning to the foundational principles of health and reason can medicine truly serve humanity. He ended with a sober warning: that building medical practice on an unproven theory is intellectually reckless, and its dogmatic enforcement is nothing short of a crime.

Dr. Leverson’s critique of germ “theory” is ultimately a rigorous indictment of the logical and scientific flaws at its core. He highlighted how the “theory” relies on fallacies such as post hoc ergo propter hoc, affirming the consequent, and begging the question, all while shifting the burden of proof and treating correlation as causation. Through examples like the presence of staphylococcus in pus or the absurd syllogisms used to justify bacterial causation, Leverson dismantled the foundation of bacteriology with clarity and wit. He also exposed the dangers of medical reification—treating disease names as fixed entities rather than varied expressions of internal imbalance—and insisted on a return to individualized, observation-based care. In his view, the persistence of the germ “theory” is less about evidence and more about institutional authority, prestige, and dogma.

Exposing logically fallacious thinking is not merely an academic exercise—it is a safeguard against flawed systems being mistaken for truth. Fallacies, when left unchecked, allow entire fields to build their foundations on assumptions rather than facts, leading to misguided practices and, in medicine, real harm. By identifying the logical errors within germ “theory,” Dr. Leverson not only challenged its scientific credibility but also illuminated the broader danger of confusing inference with demonstration, consensus with proof.

Preserving critiques like Dr. Leverson’s is not merely a matter of historical curiosity—it is essential for the health of science itself. In an era where consensus is often mistaken for truth, and dissenting voices are readily dismissed as fringe or unscientific, Leverson’s work reminds us of the importance of challenging dominant paradigms. His arguments are grounded not in contrarianism, but in logic, careful observation, and ethical concern. Revisiting such voices ensures that medical science remains open to scrutiny, correction, and evolution. It honors the principle that no theory, however widely accepted, is above question—and that genuine progress requires the courage to confront foundational assumptions. In giving space to figures like Dr. Leverson, we keep alive the spirit of inquiry that makes science worthy of public trust.

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Full article:
 
I disagree. I've decided that pursuing the subject of germ theory might be worthwhile in a thread format. So I've made the following thread for the subject:

Feel free to make any comments on germ theory in that thread.
I will admit to being fascinated by people with zero expertise in a field who take a position that is against that which the vast majority of experts actually believes.
Science isn't something that's determined by majority vote. The best science is the kind that has the most evidence to back it up.
 
Science isn't something that's determined by majority vote. The best science is the kind that has the most evidence to back it up.

This is true, but good science can be expected to be agreed upon by most scientists. Do you see how that works?

No one said it was a popularity contest, but a GOOD HYPOTHESIS can be expected to develop a consensus.

Hopefully you see the point and can dispense with this risible rejoinder.
 
Science isn't something that's determined by majority vote. The best science is the kind that has the most evidence to back it up.
This is true, but good science can be expected to be agreed upon by most scientists.

I think that depends greatly on the science in question. Specifically, are moneyed interests in play? I think Uptain Sinclair said it well in the following statement:
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”

Source:
 
I think that depends greatly on the science in question.

Not really. Re-read what I wrote.

Specifically, are moneyed interests in play?

No, that doesn't change my point.

I think Uptain Sinclair said it well in the following statement:
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”

Do most people in your area of expertise lie for money and grift to get their paychecks? No? Then don't assume that scientists are doing that.

Sure there's bad people in everything, but there is no systemic scientific cabal forcing bad science on you because of $$$ just because you disagree with the science.
 
I was just trying to separate the subject of germ theory from the subject of mRNA vaccines, which is the topic of this particular thread.
But if you start off by taking out the central theory of disease which has seen a near doubling of human lifespans

You seem to be saying that germ theory has caused a near doubling of human lifespans. Is that your claim?
 
This is true, but good science can be expected to be agreed upon by most scientists. Do you see how that works?

No one said it was a popularity contest, but a GOOD HYPOTHESIS can be expected to develop a consensus.

Hopefully you see the point and can dispense with this risible rejoinder.
We now get lied to constantly.....often by careerists and scammers.
 
This is true, but good science can be expected to be agreed upon by most scientists.
I think that depends greatly on the science in question. Specifically, are moneyed interests in play?
No, that doesn't change my point.

Would you agree that scientists can only research what they get funding to research? Furthermore, are you saying that scientists are immune to being influenced in reaching conclusions that they know their funders would be happy with? Perhaps this article can help you see the light:
 
I think Uptain Sinclair said it well in the following statement:
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”

Source:
Do most people in your area of expertise lie for money and grift to get their paychecks?

Not that I'm aware of.

Then don't assume that scientists are doing that.

I'm just reporting what's already been reported. Again, take a look at the following article to have a better idea of what's going on when it comes to how funders play a large role in what conclusions scientists come to:
 
Would you agree that scientists can only research what they get funding to research? Furthermore, are you saying that scientists are immune to being influenced in reaching conclusions that they know their funders would be happy with? Perhaps this article can help you see the light:
Also peer review has been a disaster.....used by those who already have reputation and funding to keep out those who would challenge them...especially those who point out that they are wrong.
 
Yep, I've heard that too.
In the story of what went wrong with science the destruction of the journals is huge.....they were once run by those who the community thought were the best and the brightest, and they used their best judgment in constructing the journals. At some point, I think in the 60's, it was decided that this was an affront to democracy and they were replaced with bureaucrats and peer review.

It was all downhill from there.
 
Prfof, Tyson was talking about how long people live. He said that about 30 was the life expectancy of our ancestors. It went to about 35 in the 1850s or so. What changed was science. That is why we live to the 80s now. It was not right-wing kook theories. It was science and scientific investigation which includes germ theory and vaccines too.
 
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