Do Democrats Really Hate the Working Class? Of Course They Do, They Always Have, Now They're Saying it Loud and Proud. I've Got the Receipts.

[Uncensored2008]

Doesn't mean that at all; it means they aren't entitled to the same leg rights as a ;person', since they aren't people, they're organizations, they're a legal fiction.

You're not familiar with Santa Clara.

{

U.S. Supreme Court​

Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific R. Co., 118 U.S. 394 (1886)Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company


Argued January 26-29, 1886


Decided May 10, 1886


118 U.S. 394


ERROR TO THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE UNITED


STATES FOR THE DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA


Syllabus


The defendant Corporations are persons within the intent of the clause in section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United


Page 118 U. S. 395


States, which forbids a state to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Under the Constitution and laws of California relating to taxation, fences erected upon the line between the roadway of a railroad and the land of coterminous proprietors are not part of "the roadway," to be included by the State Board in its valuation of the property of the corporation, but are "improvements" assessable by the local authorities of the proper county.}

Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co., 118 U.S. 394 (1886)

Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific R. Co.

supreme.justia.com

Though recognition of corporations as "people" is a matter of common law and goes back to the 12th century, the specific issue is for purpose of taxation. Specifically property taxes in this case. The government deigns corporations "people" not for the benefit of the corporation, but in order to tax them

The Founders never intended that, it was a post Civil War scam. They then turn around and claim 'double taxation', which of course contradicts their own premises when people are taxed on their dividends and well as a corporate tax on incomes, which is absurd. It's just a legal dodge meant to swindle the public.

How is it "absurd?" the same dollar is taxed twice in the same context.

Some of the issues discussed here:

No, Corporations Aren't People, and It's a Good Thing, Too

A new book explains that denying corporate personhood has been the key to protecting the rights of shareholders

reason.com

It's as absurd a gimmick as giving animals a vote or applying the Bill Of Rights to a brick. As for taxes, I oppose payroll taxes on wages, those are barter, not real income as defined in old school economics. There are all kinds of taxation methods, like tariffs, sales taxes, etc., without resorting to robbing workers directly. Military spending for instance could be funded by Federal real estate taxes; the military is about defending land and ownership rights of citizens, after all. This would also play a role in keeping land in public hands and stop hoarding land and avoiding taxes by scams like zoning it 'agricultural' and paying much lower rates while holding off the markets and inflating the sale price while those actually using the land have to pay a higher tax rate.

Your article agrees with me (and the SCOTUS) that the purpose of defining corporations as persons is to tax them.

I agree with your article that direct taxation is immoral - across the board. Trump has it right that tariffs and use taxes are the legitimate means of funding the government.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Your loss!

I'm sure dogs growl at him and bark. Dogs have a sense about people.

 

[EdwinA]

How is it "absurd?" the same dollar is taxed twice in the same context.

No, it isn't, it is two different incomes, the corporate 'person' and the shareholder getting the dividends are defined as separate people.

Can't have it both ways; you want to legal separation of personal incomes being protected by the courts from liability for the corporate persons' debts, you pay for the privilege.

The Founders never intended for limited liability to be available to every business; it was limited to certain types of businesses, like canals, roads, and public carriers.

You're not familiar with Santa Clara.

I'm very familiar with the rampant political corruption of the govt. and Supreme Court of the Gilded Age. There were three main cases re establishing the 'corporate personhood' scam.

Though recognition of corporations as "people" is a matter of common law and goes back to the 12th century, the specific issue is for purpose of taxation. Specifically property taxes in this case. The government deigns corporations "people" not for the benefit of the corporation, but in order to tax them

lol property taxes are on the property owned; the names are on the land titles. That is a ridiculous claim that they have be treated as 'persons'. It is even more ridiculous when these railroads routinely seize lands under imminent domain laws using the govt. and courts to steal it at bargain prices for its private use as a 'person'. Counties should b able to tax land in their counties per their own local rules. But if you're a big railroad, you buy yourself some Federal Judges, and since you already own several Senators, well, you get what you want.

Your article agrees with me (and the SCOTUS) that the purpose of defining corporations as persons is to tax them.

That is the 'libertarian' spin on one aspect of it. Claiming there is no way to tax corporations without granting the status of 'persons' is just crazy. You own shares in a company, then as an owner you should be held liable for your share of its debts. Your company commits crimes, then you should be held liable for its fines or whatever as well.

It is just a scam to keep speculators from paying for their own bad decisions and management. It limits their losses, same as a stop-loss order on a stock price going south..

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, it isn't, it is two different incomes,

False - the income was from the same transaction. If Apple makes a dollar from extorting an app developer and is taxed, then the stockholder is taxed for that dollar - it is the same transaction.

Double taxation.

the corporate 'person' and the shareholder getting the dividends are defined as separate people.

So? The profit is the same transaction - double taxation.

Can't have it both ways; you want to legal separation of personal incomes being protected by the courts from liability for the corporate persons' debts, you pay for the privilege.

The Founders never intended for limited liability to be available to every business; it was limited to certain types of businesses, like canals, roads, and public carriers.

There is no truth to your claim. Corporations were common at the formation of this nation.

I'm very familiar with the rampant political corruption of the govt. and Supreme Court of the Gilded Age. There were three main cases re establishing the 'corporate personhood' scam.


lol property taxes are on the property owned; the names are on the land titles. That is a ridiculous claim that they have be treated as 'persons'. It is even more ridiculous when these railroads routinely seize lands under imminent domain laws using the govt. and courts to steal it at bargain prices for its private use as a 'person'. Counties should b able to tax land in their counties per their own local rules. But if you're a big railroad, you buy yourself some Federal Judges, and since you already own several Senators, well, you get what you want.



That is the 'libertarian' spin on one aspect of it. Claiming there is no way to tax corporations without granting the status of 'persons' is just crazy. You own shares in a company, then as an owner you should be held liable for your share of its debts. Your company commits crimes, then you should be held liable for its fines or whatever as well.

It is just a scam to keep speculators from paying for their own bad decisions and management. It limits their losses, same as a stop-loss order on a stock price going south..

You are ignoring the facts and engaging in a rant.

 

[Into the Night]

No, it isn't, it is two different incomes, the corporate 'person' and the shareholder getting the dividends are defined as separate people.

Can't have it both ways; you want to legal separation of personal incomes being protected by the courts from liability for the corporate persons' debts, you pay for the privilege.

That's effectively double taxation. The corporation IS the shareholders.

The Founders never intended for limited liability to be available to every business; it was limited to certain types of businesses, like canals, roads, and public carriers.

You don't get to speak for the dead.

I'm very familiar with the rampant political corruption of the govt. and Supreme Court of the Gilded Age. There were three main cases re establishing the 'corporate personhood' scam.


lol property taxes are on the property owned; the names are on the land titles. That is a ridiculous claim that they have be treated as 'persons'.

Property is owned by a person.

It is even more ridiculous when these railroads routinely seize lands under imminent domain laws using the govt. and courts to steal it at bargain prices for its private use as a 'person'. Counties should b able to tax land in their counties per their own local rules. But if you're a big railroad, you buy yourself some Federal Judges, and since you already own several Senators, well, you get what you want.

This theft of land was by the government building the railroad.

That is the 'libertarian' spin on one aspect of it. Claiming there is no way to tax corporations without granting the status of 'persons' is just crazy.

A corporation is made up of shareholders...persons.

You own shares in a company, then as an owner you should be held liable for your share of its debts.

They are.

Your company commits crimes, then you should be held liable for its fines or whatever as well.

They are.

It is just a scam to keep speculators from paying for their own bad decisions and management. It limits their losses, same as a stop-loss order on a stock price going south..

A stop loss order is not a scam. Investing in a failing company is the investor's problem, and they DO wind up paying for it.

 

[Into the Night]

There is no truth to your claim. Corporations were common at the formation of this nation.

Indeed! Corporations were common long before the United States! They've been around since before 1600. The first publicly traded stock market opened in 1602 in Amsterdam. It's a big part of what put that city on the map.

 

[EdwinA]

That's effectively double taxation. The corporation IS the shareholders.

No, they aren't, which is the whole point of 'corporate personhood; it creates a scam that separates the owners from personal financial responsibility for their bad management when their corporation fails, which is why criminal love it so much. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[EdwinA]

ou don't get to speak for the dead.

I get to speak for the facts. Whether your ideology likes it or not isn't my concern. You're just confused or don't want to admit you favor exemption from liability for your actions as an owner. You want to skim profits while not being held responsible for your business going south.

 

[EdwinA]

Indeed! Corporations were common long before the United States! They've been around since before 1600. The first publicly traded stock market opened in 1602 in Amsterdam. It's a big part of what put that city on the map.

Nobody said otherwise. Strawmen don't make your case for you.

 

[EdwinA]

False - the income was from the same transaction. If Apple makes a dollar from extorting an app developer and is taxed, then the stockholder is taxed for that dollar - it is the same transaction.

Double taxation.



So? The profit is the same transaction - double taxation.



There is no truth to your claim. Corporations were common at the formation of this nation.



You are ignoring the facts and engaging in a rant.

Ideological rubbish, and strawmen to boot. It's you ideologues doing all the ranting. You're afraid you will be held liable your gambling bets going bad, is all. You want govt. protection from ownership responsibility.

 

[EdwinA]

There is no truth to your claim. Corporations were common at the formation of this nation.

Limited liability for private businesses was not. You're dodging facts.

 

[Into the Night]

No, they aren't,

Yes it is. Any corporation IS the shareholders.

which is the whole point of 'corporate personhood;

A corporation IS shareholders. They are all people.

it creates a scam that separates the owners from personal financial responsibility

Nope. If you invest in a corporation, you assume all risks of that investment.

for their bad management when their corporation fails,

If you invest in a failing corporation, you will lose money.

which is why criminal love it so much.

Corporations are not criminals. Shareholders are no criminals.

You don't know what you're talking about.

I do know what I'm talking about. I happen to be organized as a corporation. My company manufactures sensors for a wide variety of applications.

 

[Into the Night]

I get to speak for the facts.

You don't get to rename speaking for the dead as speaking for the facts. Go learn what 'fact' means. It does NOT mean Universal Truth, or Holy Writ, or 'proof'.

Whether your ideology likes it or not isn't my concern.

Random phrase ignored.

You're just confused or don't want to admit you favor exemption from liability for your actions as an owner.

I am not exempt from liability as the owner.

You want to skim profits while not being held responsible for your business going south.

I am responsible if my business 'goes south', as you put it.

 

[Into the Night]

Nobody said otherwise. Strawmen don't make your case for you.

Fallacy fallacy. No strawman.

 

[Into the Night]

Ideological rubbish,

Random phrase ignored.

and strawmen to boot.

Fallacy fallacy. No strawman.

It's you ideologues doing all the ranting.

Random phrase ignored.

You're afraid you will be held liable your gambling bets going bad, is all.

I am fully liable for any gambling debts.

You want govt. protection from ownership responsibility.

What government protection??? I am responsible for my company.

 

[Into the Night]

Limited liability for private businesses was not. You're dodging facts.

Pivot fallacy. You were talking about corporations, now you suddenly shift to talking about LLCs.
Go learn what 'fact' is.

 

[Nomad]

Allahu Akbar

I prefer the dogs that have been in my life to any democrat I've ever met. Dogs are loyal, affectionate, always happy to see you. Much better than people.

I prefer any animal of any species I've ever had any contact with to any trumper shitbag piece of trash I've ever met.

But dogs have a sense about evil, so that you hate dogs is no surprise at all. They sniff you out.

Typical lying trumper shitbag.

All you can do is twist other people's words around just like the Orange Bowel Movement you worship.

If dogs really do have a sense about evil, why would any of them associate with you?

I'm sure dogs growl at him and bark. Dogs have a sense about people.

Then why would they have anything to do with you or any other low class trumper shitbag?

 

[EdwinA]

Pivot fallacy. You were talking about corporations, now you suddenly shift to talking about LLCs.
Go learn what 'fact' is.

lol and again you show you're clueless. Typical.

 

[EdwinA]

Random phrase ignored.

Fallacy fallacy. No strawman.

Random phrase ignored.

I am fully liable for any gambling debts.

What government protection??? I am responsible for my company.

More rubbish. You will run and hide behind govt. bankruptcy laws seperating your 'corporation' debts from your personal bank accounts and your house, etc., like every other hypocrite.

 

[EdwinA]

Yes it is. Any corporation IS the shareholders.

A corporation IS shareholders. They are all people.

Nope. If you invest in a corporation, you assume all risks of that investment.

If you invest in a failing corporation, you will lose money.

Corporations are not criminals. Shareholders are no criminals.

I do know what I'm talking about. I happen to be organized as a corporation. My company manufactures sensors for a wide variety of applications.

So you paid a lawyer to cover your ass when your corporation fails to pay its debts. lol and you claim to be for 'free markets n stuff' while hiding behind legal fictions.