Addressing Obama and Racism

leaningright

leaningright

Moderate Republican
Staff member
OK, I'm starting this thread to see what level of racism is acceptable in our society considering where we've been....from slavery to segregation to integration.

I heard on CNBC this morning that a new poll shows that even though Obama continues to have fairly high approval ratings considering the jobless rate and the sputtering, though strengthening economy, that approval rating isn't transferring well to democratic congressional candidates. Obama's "likeability," though, was at 69% in the same poll. That means that 7 out of 10 people genuinely like Obama. So 30% don't like him. (I'm waiting for some to point out that this 30% were probably the 30% that approved of Bush before he left) Anyway, if 30% don't like him and one assumes that they don't like him because he is black (or tan as my son says), then 30% are racist. I don't for a minute believe the number is that high but tell me, in a world where there is always going to be a certain level of racism, what is an acceptable level?

Now the reason I post this: From a lot of things I have read and heard, some are portraying that racism is at an all time high and that the people who don't like Obama don't like him simply because he is tan...or black if you prefer. I never believed that and think this poll bears that out. I don't for a minute think that 30% of society being racist is a good thing but I also don't think things are as bad as some would want to portay them to be.
 
Our society is incredibly racist and sexist, against white males. It's legal to dicriminate against those victims of the state. White males are not afforded the constitutional protections of others.
 
leaningright said:
OK, I'm starting this thread to see what level of racism is acceptable in our society considering where we've been....from slavery to segregation to integration.

I heard on CNBC this morning that a new poll shows that even though Obama continues to have fairly high approval ratings considering the jobless rate and the sputtering, though strengthening economy, that approval rating isn't transferring well to democratic congressional candidates. Obama's "likeability," though, was at 69% in the same poll. That means that 7 out of 10 people genuinely like Obama. So 30% don't like him. (I'm waiting for some to point out that this 30% were probably the 30% that approved of Bush before he left) Anyway, if 30% don't like him and one assumes that they don't like him because he is black (or tan as my son says), then 30% are racist. I don't for a minute believe the number is that high but tell me, in a world where there is always going to be a certain level of racism, what is an acceptable level?

Now the reason I post this: From a lot of things I have read and heard, some are portraying that racism is at an all time high and that the people who don't like Obama don't like him simply because he is tan...or black if you prefer. I never believed that and think this poll bears that out. I don't for a minute think that 30% of society being racist is a good thing but I also don't think things are as bad as some would want to portay them to be.
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It's hard to quantify racism, and it's vague what people mean when they talk about racism.

Nobody ever admits to being a racist, and the people walking around with white sheets and hoods are only a tiny, nearly insignificant, part of the problem.

There are many levels and facets to racism. Some of it we don't even recognize in ourselves; e.g., Dixie proclaims that he only parades around with confederate battle flags as an benign expression of pride in southern heritage. Question: Why aren't southern blacks ever seen parading around with confederate battle flags? Why do only southern whites do it? I seriously doubt the worship and honoring of the confederacy by southern whites can be characterized as completely benign and totally independent of all racial considerations.

The problem with racism is not that there are a few klansmen running around. The problem is with how bias, and discrimination are institutionalized in our society. Most of the time we don't even recognize. When Reagan cracked jokes about welfare queens, we all know what he was talking about - even if technically, the argument could be made that he was just talking about "government waste". My experience is that when a lot of people talk about "government waste", it's never about the Pentagon or the Iraq War. It's not even about social security or medicare. It's about undeserving, poor people (who are presumed to be mostly brown) getting an undeserved handout from the tax payer. I don't think it neccessarily means they universally hate people with brown skin. It's a much more diffuse kind of bias, tied in complex ways to economic class. And economic class is, in turn, infused with elements of racial and ethnic overtones.

The problem of racism is much deeper and widespread than some dudes who hate a guy with brown skin. And from a policy perspective, the government is never going to make individuals change what's in their hearts. The government job is to ensure equal protection and opportunity under the law, regardless of what people have in their hearts.
 
leaningright said:
OK, I'm starting this thread to see what level of racism is acceptable in our society considering where we've been....from slavery to segregation to integration.

I heard on CNBC this morning that a new poll shows that even though Obama continues to have fairly high approval ratings considering the jobless rate and the sputtering, though strengthening economy, that approval rating isn't transferring well to democratic congressional candidates. Obama's "likeability," though, was at 69% in the same poll. That means that 7 out of 10 people genuinely like Obama. So 30% don't like him. (I'm waiting for some to point out that this 30% were probably the 30% that approved of Bush before he left) Anyway, if 30% don't like him and one assumes that they don't like him because he is black (or tan as my son says), then 30% are racist. I don't for a minute believe the number is that high but tell me, in a world where there is always going to be a certain level of racism, what is an acceptable level?

Now the reason I post this: From a lot of things I have read and heard, some are portraying that racism is at an all time high and that the people who don't like Obama don't like him simply because he is tan...or black if you prefer. I never believed that and think this poll bears that out. I don't for a minute think that 30% of society being racist is a good thing but I also don't think things are as bad as some would want to portay them to be.
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I would argue in politics where things are so partisan how do you differentiate between partisan and racism?

I'd be curious what the highest likeability rating a President has ever had? Between partisanship and some just not liking people in power I'm pretty impressed Obama has a 69% likeability rating.
 
Cypress mentioned the use of the term "welfare queens." When I heard that (and even when I hear it now) I didn't think of black people at all. Most of the welfare people around here are white. Maybe I am just out of touch with what all is going on. You are right that the majority of those recepients nationwide are people of color, but one can be against something like welfare and still not be racist. I am not against welfare for people who need it but I really liked Clinton's try at moving people off the government tit by providing training and the like. I do not think that is racist.
 
cawacko said:
I would argue in politics where things are so partisan how do you differentiate between partisan and racism?

I'd be curious what the highest likeability rating a President has ever had? Between partisanship and some just not liking people in power I'm pretty impressed Obama has a 69% likeability rating.
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See, I fall into that 69%. I genuinly like the man, would have him over for dinner or enjoy a day of golfing with him...I just disagree with much of his policy.
 
leaningright said:
Cypress mentioned the use of the term "welfare queens." When I heard that (and even when I hear it now) I didn't think of black people at all. Most of the welfare people around here are white. Maybe I am just out of touch with what all is going on. You are right that the majority of those recepients nationwide are people of color, but one can be against something like welfare and still not be racist. I am not against welfare for people who need it but I really liked Clinton's try at moving people off the government tit by providing training and the like. I do not think that is racist.
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Actually I thought whites made up the majority of those on welfare? As percent of the population I thought blacks made up a higher number (if I'm saying that right) but by total number I was under the impression it was whites.
 
cawacko said:
Actually I thought whites made up the majority of those on welfare? As percent of the population I thought blacks made up a higher number (if I'm saying that right) but by total number I was under the impression it was whites.
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May be? I was just going off of what Cypress had said. I really don't know.
 
leaningright said:
See, I fall into that 69%. I genuinly like the man, would have him over for dinner or enjoy a day of golfing with him...I just disagree with much of his policy.
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Same. While having an inherent dislike of anyone dirty enough to win the Presidency if interviewed I would say I disapprove of the job he is doing but like Obama as a person.
 
leaningright said:
May be? I was just going off of what Cypress had said. I really don't know.
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Whites make up maybe 65% of the U.S population (i think that is right?) while blacks only 11% or so. So more whites are on welfare but as a percentage of their group more blacks are.
 
leaningright said:
Cypress mentioned the use of the term "welfare queens." When I heard that (and even when I hear it now) I didn't think of black people at all. Most of the welfare people around here are white. Maybe I am just out of touch with what all is going on. You are right that the majority of those recepients nationwide are people of color, but one can be against something like welfare and still not be racist. I am not against welfare for people who need it but I really liked Clinton's try at moving people off the government tit by providing training and the like. I do not think that is racist.
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I've always found the level of passion for getting people off of welfare to be illuminative. I've always wondered why there was never a similar level of passion among many welfare-reform supporters to end corporate welfare or to substantially downsize the military industrial complex. Let's face it, regardless of message board pontificating, there are no tea bag activists, nor indeed even many liberal protestors who are out waving signs to gut the military industrial complex. It doesn't even come close to the level of passion for welfare reform, or building border walls to keep mexicans out. The only vigorous and passionate protests I've ever seen against corporate power were the WTO protests.

Like I said, bias is tied in diffuse and complex ways to economic class. And whether we choose to recognize it or not, economic class is in turn, tied in diffuse ways to skin color and ethnicity. Republican campaign strategists are fully aware of this, even when message board posters aren't. There are many dog whistles that can be blown, to gin up ambient racial and ethnic anxiety and resentment, while couching it in terms of what appear to be relatively benign economic issues. That's not to say you are one of the people who are manipulated by dog whistles. I'm just saying that's a straightforward fact of american politics and american society more broadly.
 
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No level of racism is acceptable. That does not mean we will see the end of all racism in our lives - or our great grandchildren's lives. But we can take steps to diminish raccist attitudes. That is why I am always against government policies which are race based. I don;t give a crap if their purpose is to "level the playing field" as their proponents like to claim. When our own government says it is OK to pay attention to one's race when determining need, then racism is simply being extended as an acceptable practice. If the purpose is to enhance the economic abilities of individuals, then pay attention to economics, not racial heritage. Poor people need help because they are poor. Having policies that say, basically, these poor people don't need as much help as others because of skin color are dead assed wrong.

When we get racism out of government, even "benevolent" racism, only then will we be a society on its way to getting rid of all racism.
 
I don't hate Obama because he's black, but because he's a socialist. I voted for Allen Keyes who has much darker skin than Obama. His skin color or ethnicity has nothing do do with my support, only his values and beliefs.
 
I don't often agree with SM...he's a bit more extreme that I, but on this we definitely agree. While I don't "hate" Obama, I definitely disagree with many of his stances on the issues. I also have voted for much "blacker" candidates than Obama because skin color simply doesn't matter to me. But using Cypress' explanation above, Allen Keyes or J.C. Watts or some other conservative black folks would be Uncle Tom's at best and outright racists at worst. I still contend that racism isn't as bad as some would want it to appear to be. And this isn't directed at Cypress at all....I think we have differences of opinion as to what constitutes racism. This is directed at those, usually on the extreme left, who want to make it appear that any who oppose Obama's policies are doing so because he is black, to bolster their party of choice.
 
Cypress said:
There are many dog whistles that can be blown, to gin up ambient racial and ethnic anxiety and resentment.
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You mean like how you lib haters are always trying to convince black people that white people are out to get them, or that all opposition to obama's policies is race based?
 
leaningright said:
I don't often agree with SM...he's a bit more extreme that I, but on this we definitely agree. While I don't "hate" Obama, I definitely disagree with many of his stances on the issues.
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About 20 years ago my hatred would be a simple dislike but the more I learn about the Democrat Party and its true intentions to usurp the Constitution and negate all the blood and treasure spent to defend it over 200 plus years the more visceral I become.
 
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
 
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