Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Not that there's anything wrong with fantasy land...
an example of why unfettered markets dont work
- Thread starter evince
- Start date
Another hilarious case of collective amnesia. Republicans never supported Bush, Liberals are equally to blame for the Iraq fiasco, and conservatives have always been strong and passionate proponents of increasing regulation and oversight of the markets.
To accept these premises we would have to forget 8 years of message board history. I’ve been on message boards since the year 2000, and prior to 18 months ago I can’t recall a single message board conservative ever, not one single time, calling for more regulation and oversight. Universally, they called for less regulation and for getting bureaucratic regulatory agencies, and the government more broadly “out of the way”.
I only recall message board liberals over the past decade routinely and consistently saying that corporations were under regulated and more oversight was needed. In fact, I seem to recall posters like USCitizen and Desh being laughed off for years as being socialists and naïve communists for saying that the markets needed far more regulation.
I guess we are all New Dealers, Keynesians and passionate regulators now. Cheers!
Good Luck
New member
What amazes me about the very existence of this thread is the author chose the most regulated industry in existence as their example of unfettered market.
CLUE: one of the biggest reasons things are where they are is because certain elements have found ways of TAKING ADVANTAGE of regulations to screw with the system for their benefit.
Fiscal conservatives do not want "unfettered" markets. No one wants zero regulation - well, maybe a few mindless droids who think if there were no laws, then everyone would sit around their back yards getting high and not bother anyone else. But what IS desired, and seldom accomplished, is a minimal set of regulations that actually do the job of protecting the common consumer from excesses and unfair practices from those who control huge sums of money, without a bunch of side effects that end up costing the consumer unnecessarily.
All too often the types of regulations the government (who is about power and authority, and NOT about the People) do little to protect the consumer, but do much to force an industry to bend to the government will and fill their coffers through various fees and costs of following the regulations - costs which are passed on to the common consumer. These are the regulations which conservatives desire to get rid of, not the ones that protect the system by allowing prosecution of the illicit.
CLUE: one of the biggest reasons things are where they are is because certain elements have found ways of TAKING ADVANTAGE of regulations to screw with the system for their benefit.
Fiscal conservatives do not want "unfettered" markets. No one wants zero regulation - well, maybe a few mindless droids who think if there were no laws, then everyone would sit around their back yards getting high and not bother anyone else. But what IS desired, and seldom accomplished, is a minimal set of regulations that actually do the job of protecting the common consumer from excesses and unfair practices from those who control huge sums of money, without a bunch of side effects that end up costing the consumer unnecessarily.
All too often the types of regulations the government (who is about power and authority, and NOT about the People) do little to protect the consumer, but do much to force an industry to bend to the government will and fill their coffers through various fees and costs of following the regulations - costs which are passed on to the common consumer. These are the regulations which conservatives desire to get rid of, not the ones that protect the system by allowing prosecution of the illicit.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Another case of an idiot from the left spazzing out and trying to either generalize everything or return to creating the biggest straw man he can.
blah blah blah straw man blah blah blah straw man blah blah blah
more of the same type of bullshit Desh espouses. Pretending that ONLY liberals want regulations... blah blah blah blah
you truly are an idiot. One day morons like you and Desh will realize that Republicans and Libertarians are not against ALL regulations and never have been. It is only in your insane little world that such a thing exists.
That said, as we have stated many times and idiots like you and Desh continue to ignore.... Republicans ARE in GENERAL going to lean towards more deregulation and less government interference. But they are NOT against ALL regulations. They do understand that many regs are necessary.
and NO... we are not all Keynesian followers now, nor do we want more crappy New Deal policies that are once again half assed (like the new Health Care fiasco).
How long did it take for the 'savings' of the new health care deal to evaporate?.... one month... and already the CBO has revised the savings over the next ten years DOWN by $115 BILLION.
Most conservatives I know believe that governments role in regulating business should be limited to protecting consumers. The problem with goovernment regulating in the last 40 years has been democrat imposed policy making that "forces" businesses to adopt positions like lending to high risk borrowers.
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
Awesome. Sign me up!.
Strict oversight and proactive regulation of markets and corporations is a liberal, New Deal ideology.
Letting the markets, in large measure, function free of proactive and strict oversight is a conservative philosophy.
80 years of history is available to debunk anyone who says otherwise.
Have large chunks of the leadership of the Democratic party been bought off by corporate special interest money? No doubt.
But, my position is that of the two major political entities in this country, one is more likely to be pressured into returning to New Deal-style regulatory oversight: The Democratic party.
If you all want to believe that the Republican Party is more likely to be pressured into being passionate, and proactive strict regulators, that's fine. I think that view is either naive, or disingenuous.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
again, a gross exaggeration of the positions once again. You clearly have your partisan blinders locked firmly in place.
Trucking industry, airline industry, Glass Steagall... all deregulated by DEMS
Sarbanes Oxley... implemented by Republicans
Like Desh, you want to paint it as a black and white issue with one party on each extreme. THAT is naive.
I don't need to pretend, the facts i.e. policy support for regulating the markets where consumer/market protections are the rationale are in the historical record. I think SF provided some examples.
The trouble with government oversight is when it becomes interference based on special interest i.e. Fanny and Freddie high risk lending. Forcing banks to loan to high risk individules in order to grow and expand is government coercian, not regulation.
Good Luck
New member
BINGO!
Regulations governing economic industries should be limited to what entities of the industry can NOT do. They cannot arbitrarily change a contracts in their favor. They cannot participate in insider trading. They cannot deliberately manipulate stock prices (especially their own). They cannot (grossly) misrepresent their products. Etc.
It is those regulations that start telling industries "You must do this." "You must do that" that cause trouble, leading invariably to imbalances the economy so that constant adjustment and additional interference is needed to keep things from falling apart. There was a time when government regulations required passenger trains to make stops at practically every cluster of more than 3 houses within a mile of the tracks. That requirement quickly became too expensive for the railroads, who then started shutting down their passenger lines. Government takes over, tries to run it according to those regulations and came within a gnat's eyebrow of completely collapsing the passenger train industry. Montana at one time had a thriving passenger train service with two main east-west lines, one in the north, one in the south. Within two years of Amtrak taking over, they eliminated the south line (for ecconomical reasons) - a line the Great Northern was able to run profitably for decades before federal regulations made it uneconomical.
As many have stated, conservatives are not in favor of zero regulation. What conservatives favor are reasonable regulations that actually protect the consumer, and against regulations that force business to do something based on touchy-feely uneconomical nonsense, and/or regulations more focused on the governmental power derived than the effects of the regulation on consumers (ie: the People).
