Odd Time for a "Taxed Enough Already" Movement

[Cancel 2016.2]

OK, anyone (left or right) care to address this part of my conclusion?

My guess is because you do not have a lot of deductions that vary year to year. For those with stock losses, they have $3000 they will have to deduct this year, where as last year they may have paid on gains.

But even then, most salaried/hourly people are not going to see a big change year over year due to that.

The big changes or shifts are going to typically come from these:

1) Someone lost their job (or saw pay/hours cut)

2) Higher net worth people had capital losses that offset capital gains (vs. years in which they do not have losses)

3) Small business owners seeing revenues fluctuate

 

[Damocles]

Maybe it's because I'm an accountant, your wrong to. The taxes paid in 2009 represent an effective 2008 tax rate on 2008's income, not 2009 effective rate on 2008 income. Dam

Dear Topspin,

The article cannot be about 2009's taxes as the returns haven't yet even all come in yet.

Sincerely,

Your Brain.

 

[Bonestorm]

wait are you saying because 95% got a tax credit that's not a reduced income tax. LOL this should be brilliant

Seriously. Like I said, when Obama cuts taxes (tax credits are cuts) it doesn't count, apparently.

 

[Damocles]

Seriously. Like I said, when Obama cuts taxes (tax credits are cuts) it doesn't count, apparently.

Again, they are not protesting the 2009 tax rates, they are protesting to ensure that 2010 doesn't end the tax cuts through expiration and inaction from this President and his Congress thus increasing their rates as well as protesting the direct logical link to overspending and future necessary tax increases to pay for this largess.

It's the spending, Stupid. <- Reminding myself to make bumper stickers.

 

[Topspin]

Dear Topspin,

The article cannot be about 2009's taxes as the returns haven't yet even all come in yet.

Sincerely,

Your Brain.

Dear faux Buddist, superfreak started the 2009 effective rate on 2008 income. He even copied and enlarged the 2009 you tool. You should direct your correction to him. I owned both you non accountants on it.

 

[Bonestorm]

Again, they are not protesting the 2009 tax rates, they are protesting to ensure that 2010 doesn't end the tax cuts and increase their rates as well as the direct link to overspending and tax increases.

It's the spending, Stupid. <- Reminding myself to make bumper stickers.

I appreciate your input, but none of what you wrote above addresses my point. SF apparently takes the absurd position that the Making Work Pay tax credit had no significant impact on the lower percentage of income being taxed.

 

[leaningright]

My guess is because you do not have a lot of deductions that vary year to year. For those with stock losses, they have $3000 they will have to deduct this year, where as last year they may have paid on gains.

But even then, most salaried/hourly people are not going to see a big change year over year due to that.

The big changes or shifts are going to typically come from these:

1) Someone lost their job (or saw pay/hours cut)

2) Higher net worth people had capital losses that offset capital gains (vs. years in which they do not have losses)

3) Small business owners seeing revenues fluctuate

I get it now. In other words, the middle class earners, you know those of us who are salaried employees, continue to be financially molested at a higher degree than those who make lots of money and have that extra to invest. Got it. No wonder a flat tax seems like a good thing to many middle-class folks. It may not turn out to be but I can't see it being much worse.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Dear faux Buddist, superfreak started the 2009 effective rate on 2008 income. He even copied and enlarged the 2009 you tool. You should direct your correction to him. I owned both you non accountants on it.

Listen moron.... again... just answer this question.

For your 2009 tax filing... what tax year was the income based on?

 

[Damocles]

I appreciate your input, but none of what you wrote above addresses my point. SF apparently takes the absurd position that the Making Work Pay tax credit had no significant impact on the lower percentage of income being taxed.

I posted it clearly and concisely earlier, that you do not follow your own thread doesn't matter to me.

However, "It's the spending, Stupid." does answer why it isn't "awkward" to protest taxation right now, which is actually what your title said the thread was about.

 

[Bonestorm]

Again, they are not protesting the 2009 tax rates, they are protesting to ensure that 2010 doesn't end the tax cuts through expiration and inaction from this President and his Congress thus increasing their rates as well as protesting the direct logical link to overspending and future necessary tax increases to pay for this largess.

It's the spending, Stupid. <- Reminding myself to make bumper stickers.

I understand that point. You should change the bumper sticker to "It's the spending by a Democratic president, Stupid."

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I get it now. In other words, the middle class earners, you know those of us who are salaried employees, continue to be financially molested at a higher degree than those who make lots of money. Got it. No wonder a flat tax seems like a good thing to many middle-class folks. It may not turn out to be but I can't see it being much worse.

1) It is not necessarily that the rich are taking advantage, it is simply that more of their income comes from variable income. Thus, they are going to be more susceptible to swings in their effective tax rate.

2) The flat tax would eliminate all the bullshit and would be truly progressive provided you included a standard deduction. No other deductions or loopholes allowed. The tax code would essentially be one page rather than 70k pages.

 

[Topspin]

Listen moron.... again... just answer this question.

For your 2009 tax filing... what tax year was the income based on?

Ok douchebag you wont take the advice of an accountant with 26 year. Please google it. The fucking effective tax rate is the rate of the year with the income. Pleaes look it up as you obviously won't take my expertise as an answer. The effective rate is what you wind up paying after all deduction.

IE I pay 11% of my 2008 income in federal income tax. My 2008 effective tax rate is 11%. My 20010 effective rate will be determined in 2011 when I do my taxes.

 

[Bonestorm]

I posted it clearly and concisely earlier, that you do not follow your own thread doesn't matter to me.

However, "It's the spending, Stupid." does answer why it isn't "awkward" to protest taxation right now, which is actually what your title said the thread was about.

I was raising a point about something SF wrote, nothing more. I appreciate you standing by you man and all, but he's a big boy. He can speak for himself.

And the thread is about how it's pretty stupid to have a "Taxed Enough Already" movement in a time of historically low taxes. Maybe they should change their name to avoid the appearance of idiocy, although I'm not certain the name change would help much on that score.

 

[leaningright]

I was raising a point about something SF wrote, nothing more. I appreciate you standing by you man and all, but he's a big boy. He can speak for himself.

And the thread is about how it's pretty stupid to have a "Taxed Enough Already" movement in a time of historically low taxes. Maybe they should change their name to avoid the appearance of idiocy, although I'm not certain the name change would help much on that score.

Or maybe, just maybe, they feel the way I do. You can take most middle-class folks' pay stubs and compare the numbers in the article quite easily....and it don't stack up well for the middle class. I really think that's why folks are so worked up. Should have been all along, IMO, but with the passage of the health care bill and other things I can understand the uprising. Sorry I didn't get in on this thread and got in on the thread that's messed up.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I appreciate your input, but none of what you wrote above addresses my point. SF apparently takes the absurd position that the Making Work Pay tax credit had no significant impact on the lower percentage of income being taxed.

The fact that you are arguing that it did is amusing.

You are talking about $400 for an individual and $800 for a couple making less than $75k and $150k respectively.

It may have had a significant effect on the effective rate of low income workers, but it did not have a significant impact on the Country's rate quoted on the whole.

Not when you compare it to the effects of job losses, capital losses vs gains, cut backs in spending etc... It is not significant by comparison.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I was raising a point about something SF wrote, nothing more. I appreciate you standing by you man and all, but he's a big boy. He can speak for himself.

And the thread is about how it's pretty stupid to have a "Taxed Enough Already" movement in a time of historically low taxes. Maybe they should change their name to avoid the appearance of idiocy, although I'm not certain the name change would help much on that score.

and again, you are looking at it from the perspective that the only protest should be about taxation that ALREADY OCCURRED.

What the fuck is the point of protesting taxation that ALREADY OCCURRED.

THEY ARE PROTESTING FUTURE TAX RATE INCREASES YOU IGNORANT TWIT.

How many times must that be stated before that partisan mind of yours comprehends it?

 

[Damocles]

I understand that point. You should change the bumper sticker to "It's the spending by a Democratic president, Stupid."

It would not then be accurate.

1. The President more than doubled Bush's already spendthrift budget proposals.
2. If Rs are elected and continue to spend this way, they will lose their jobs as well.
3. It is under this President that their taxes may go up solely through inaction of this President and his Congress.

 

[Topspin]

Or maybe, just maybe, they feel the way I do. You can take most middle-class folks' pay stubs and compare the numbers in the article quite easily....and it don't stack up well for the middle class. I really think that's why folks are so worked up. Should have been all along, IMO, but with the passage of the health care bill and other things I can understand the uprising. Sorry I didn't get in on this thread and got in on the thread that's messed up.

I agree with this sentiment, it's not that taxes didn't go down. It's bailing out wall street and kennedy's friends that sail in the hamptons on the back of the fireman and librarian. I've been saying here for a decade if people had to cut the check each month instead of the withdrawl they'd be a lot more pissed. Bad timing and name yes, but they should be pissed very pissed.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Ok douchebag you wont take the advice of an accountant with 26 year. Please google it. The fucking effective tax rate is the rate of the year with the income. Pleaes look it up as you obviously won't take my expertise as an answer. The effective rate is what you wind up paying after all deduction.

IE I pay 11% of my 2008 income in federal income tax. My 2008 effective tax rate is 11%. My 20010 effective rate will be determined in 2011 when I do my taxes.

I am talking about the effective rate they use for the 2009 number they quoted you moron. THAT uses 2008's income numbers toppy.

 

[Topspin]

and again, you are looking at it from the perspective that the only protest should be about taxation that ALREADY OCCURRED.

What the fuck is the point of protesting taxation that ALREADY OCCURRED.

THEY ARE PROTESTING FUTURE TAX RATE INCREASES YOU IGNORANT TWIT.

How many times must that be stated before that partisan mind of yours comprehends it?

I dissagree 100%, they are protesting currently being fucked over. It's effectively symantics that income taxes actually went down. The stock market bounced back but the average Joe was too chicken to get back in if they got out in early 09. Bailing out billionaires and multi millionaires is the pill that was just to big to swallow, and if Obama does not show significant planned cuts then he'll lose in 12.