To non Catholic Christians let's talk John 6:34-69

[gfm7175]

I guess 4 times isn't enough for you. Yes worship in SPIRIT that Jesus tells us 4 TIMES to eat his flesh not bread and not his word.

Since, after repeated attempts, you refuse to enter into this conversation with me, I'll enter into it FOR you.

Given that you call yourself a Catholic, I take it that you also subscribe to amillennialism. Maybe you personally don't agree with that particular Catholic belief, but until you clarify for me what you actually DO believe, then I'll just safely assume that you subscribe to amillennialism.

Assuming the above, that means that you DON'T take the underlying message of Revelation chapter 20 literally, but rather you allegorize the living daylights out of it until you arrive at a conclusion that is sooooo far beyond anything that is actually being said in those passages.

So, my response to you is this: "I guess 6 times isn't enough for you. John tells us 6 TIMES that the time period being spoken of is one thousand years, not some generically long period of time.

 

[gfm7175]

So Jesus lied? Got it

That's what YOU'RE claiming, not me.

 

[Yakuda]

Since, after repeated attempts, you refuse to enter into this conversation with me, I'll enter into it FOR you.

Given that you call yourself a Catholic, I take it that you also subscribe to amillennialism. Maybe you personally don't agree with that particular Catholic belief, but until you clarify for me what you actually DO believe, then I'll just safely assume that you subscribe to amillennialism.

Assuming the above, that means that you DON'T take the underlying message of Revelation chapter 20 literally, but rather you allegorize the living daylights out of it until you arrive at a conclusion that is sooooo far beyond anything that is actually being said in those passages.

So, my response to you is this: "I guess 6 times isn't enough for you. John tells us 6 TIMES that the time period being spoken of is one thousand years, not some generically long period of time.

You're avoiding the topic. You wrote this:

"This particular discussion has already been had. You're still stuck with the issue that, under your understanding of Jesus' words, Jesus is claiming that all partakers of holy communion receive eternal life. (my emphasis) That's simply not true."

John 6: 54 however says

"Whoever feeds upon my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will take him up on the last day."

Now look Ive been very patient with you but if you cant bring yourself to accept what Jesus is plainly saying you need to do some soul searching friend.

Would it help you to hear from Paul? 1 Corinthians 11:27-29

27 Therefore anyone who eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner is guilty of an offense against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone should examine himself about eating the bread and drinking from the cup. 29 For person who eats and drinks without discerning the body of the Lord is eating and drinking judgment on himself.

Yeah you probably don't want to hear from Paul either.

 

[gfm7175]

You're avoiding the topic.

I've already addressed the topic ad nauseum, and now you don't wish to explore Revelation 20 because you know full well that the "FOUR TIMES" retort of yours regarding the transubstantiation topic is hypocritical of you when you (and I can only assume this, since you refuse to actually address it) instead choose to ignore the "SIX TIMES" that the words "one thousand years" are plainly stated in Revelation 20.

You wrote this:

"This particular discussion has already been had. You're still stuck with the issue that, under your understanding of Jesus' words, Jesus is claiming that all partakers of holy communion receive eternal life. (my emphasis) That's simply not true."

Correct, that's indeed what I wrote. The bolded text is what you are inadvertently claiming via your (mis)understanding of John 6.

John 6: 54 however says

"Whoever feeds upon my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will take him up on the last day."

... thus, per YOUR understanding of John 6, you are claiming that anyone who partakes in holy communion receives eternal life, since one has then "fed upon Jesus' flesh" and "drank his blood".

The belief of transubstantiation takes literally what ought to be understood spiritually.

Now look Ive been very patient with you but if you cant bring yourself to accept what Jesus is plainly saying you need to do some soul searching friend.

I'm accepting it; you're attempting to make literal something that is to be understood spiritually.

Would it help you to hear from Paul? 1 Corinthians 11:27-29

The bread symbolizes Jesus' body (which he gave for the salvation of mankind); the wine symbolizes Jesus' blood (which was shed to cleanse us from our sins).

27 Therefore anyone who eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner is guilty of an offense against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone should examine himself about eating the bread and drinking from the cup. 29 For person who eats and drinks without discerning the body of the Lord is eating and drinking judgment on himself.

IOW, partaking in holy communion should be treated seriously and understood as something more than just the physical bread and wine (namely, the representation of Jesus' body and blood).

Yeah you probably don't want to hear from Paul either.

I'm happy to hear from Paul (well, ultimately from God).

 

[Yakuda]

I've already addressed the topic ad nauseum, and now you don't wish to explore Revelation 20 because you know full well that the "FOUR TIMES" retort of yours regarding the transubstantiation topic is hypocritical of you when you (and I can only assume this, since you refuse to actually address it) instead choose to ignore the "SIX TIMES" that the words "one thousand years" are plainly stated in Revelation 20.

Correct, that's indeed what I wrote. The bolded text is what you are inadvertently claiming via your (mis)understanding of John 6.

... thus, per YOUR understanding of John 6, you are claiming that anyone who partakes in holy communion receives eternal life, since one has then "fed upon Jesus' flesh" and "drank his blood".

The belief of transubstantiation takes literally what ought to be understood spiritually.

I'm accepting it; you're attempting to make literal something that is to be understood spiritually.

The bread symbolizes Jesus' body (which he gave for the salvation of mankind); the wine symbolizes Jesus' blood (which was shed to cleanse us from our sins).

IOW, partaking in holy communion should be treated seriously and understood as something more than just the physical bread and wine (namely, the representation of Jesus' body and blood).

I'm happy to hear from Paul (well, ultimately from God).

But it's not simply physical bread and wine it is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. Jesus is clear, eat his flesh and you have eternal life. Nothing in Scripture undoes that.

 

[gfm7175]

But it's not simply physical bread and wine it is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. Jesus is clear, eat his flesh and you have eternal life. Nothing in Scripture undoes that.

Jesus is the bread -- the bread is his flesh. During Holy Communion, we eat the unleavened bread in memory of Jesus sacrificing his flesh on the cross for us; taking our sins upon his body, nailing the sins of the world to the cross. Eternal life is inherited via believing that the sacrifice of Jesus' flesh (and the shedding of Jesus' blood to cover our sins) was done for us.

 

[Yakuda]

Jesus is the bread -- the bread is his flesh. During Holy Communion, we eat the unleavened bread in memory of Jesus sacrificing his flesh on the cross for us; taking our sins upon his body, nailing the sins of the world to the cross. Eternal life is inherited via believing that the sacrifice of Jesus' flesh (and the shedding of Jesus' blood to cover our sins) was done for us.

No we don't not when a priest has offered prayers of consecration. Saying eternal life is inherited via believing... that directly contradicts John 6 verses 53, 54, 55, 56, 57 and 58.

 

[gfm7175]

No we don't not when a priest has offered prayers of consecration. Saying eternal life is inherited via believing... that directly contradicts John 6 verses 53, 54, 55, 56, 57 and 58.

No, it doesn't. You are still attempting to understand the spiritual via the physical. You are still attempting to claim that partaking in holy communion grants eternal life. You are still attempting to claim that holy communion is cannibalism.

 

[Yakuda]

No, it doesn't. You are still attempting to understand the spiritual via the physical. You are still attempting to claim that partaking in holy communion grants eternal life. You are still attempting to claim that holy communion is cannibalism.

IM not attempting anything Ive showed you time and again where Jesus is saying exactly what you claim is not being said. V54 "Whoever feeds upon my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up in the last day. And what does he say before that? V53 "Amen Amen I say to you unless you eat the flesh (not bread not the word) of the son of man you do not have life within you". Whoa not only no eternal life but no life within you.

As to cannibalism I don't know but V60 After hearing his words many of his disciples said, "This is a hard saying. Who can accept it?" Not you apparently.