Grok, is atheism a religion?

[ThatOwlWoman]

Some atheists treat their beliefs like a religion. E.g. https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/

Grok - what is a religion?

A religion is a system of beliefs, practices, and values centered around questions of existence, purpose, and the nature of reality, often involving a higher power or divine being(s). It typically includes rituals, moral codes, and a community of adherents, providing a framework for understanding life and death, and often guiding behavior and spirituality. Examples include Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism.

Yes, some are pretty militant about it. But the vast majority of atheists just go about life giving no thought to the subject unless brought up by someone else. I've only known a handful of militant atheists who got that way either because of strict religious parents, bad experiences with the religious, being around ppl who told them they're going to Hell for not believing in their god, or just by inclination. In their way they are just as obnoxious IMO, as preachy Xtians. lol

 

[AProudLefty]

A spiritual atheist is someone who believes in and experiences spirituality, often finding meaning and connection to the universe, while rejecting the existence of supernatural deities or religious dogma. They might find meaning in the interconnectedness of all things, wonder at the universe's vastness, or experience awe and wonder through scientific understanding.

Here's a more detailed look:
Key Characteristics:

• • Rejects supernatural deities:
    Spiritual atheists don't believe in gods, goddesses, or other supernatural beings.
    
  • Experiences spirituality:
    They may experience a sense of connection to something larger than themselves, the universe, or the natural world.
    
  • Finds meaning in other ways:
    They might find meaning in scientific understanding, relationships, personal growth, or the natural world.
    
  • May engage in spiritual practices:
    They might practice meditation, contemplation, or other practices that help them connect with their inner selves or the world around them.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes, some are pretty militant about it. But the vast majority of atheists just go about life giving no thought to the subject unless brought up by someone else. I've only known a handful of militant atheists who got that way either because of strict religious parents, bad experiences with the religious, being around ppl who told them they're going to Hell for not believing in their god, or just by inclination. In their way they are just as obnoxious IMO, as preachy Xtians. lol

Agreed, as do theists. Most Americans are pretty good about minding their own business. It's the loud, obnoxious ones, be they atheist or theist, who stir up shit.


FWIW, like televangelists, I believe the Four Horsemen of New Atheism (AKA militant atheism) did it more for fame and fortune than belief.

 

[Cypress]

We do not have faith. What would we have faith in? It is not a belief system. The absence of religion and not believing in god, is not faith. There is nothing there. We do not substitute something for god and religion. Religion and god get no attention day by day in an atheist's life.

Faith is not a bad word.

Some people seem to want to believe faith is a bad or derogatory word.

People have faith in their wives.

People have faith in the prescription the pharmacist fills for them.

People have faith in their friends.

Scientists have faith that the universe is ultimately rationally intelligent.

The person who believes in strict physical materialism has faith that nothing is real but matter and physical energy.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Faith is not a bad word.

Some people seem to want to believe faith is a bad or derogatory word.

People have faith in their wives.

People have faith in the prescription the pharmacist fills for them.

People have faith in their friends.

Scientists have faith that the universe is ultimately rationally intelligent.

The person who believes in strict physical materialism has faith that nothing is real but matter and physical energy.

Well said and agreed. Faith in an existence beyond the mortal is one thing, but we put our faith in natural things too such as the aforementioned bridge and your examples of friends and family.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

My guess is that its militant atheism meaning someone as pushy about their beliefs as a fundie Christian.

Maybe so. Just as some evangelicals enjoy telling non-believers that they are hellbound, some militant atheists spend too much time making fun of religions and religious people and their beliefs. I know I've seen the term "Sky Daddy" here more than once. lol

Here's another question: Why do some believers want to insist that atheism is a form of religion?

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

No since they believe in an existence beyond the mortal.

A pure atheist believes "when you're dead, you're dead". There is nothing beyond the mortal and the physical universe. They have no answers for whence the Universe came into being. They don't ask uncomfortable questions. LOL

Mostly true, and mostly because the subject isn't relevant to them.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Maybe so. Just as some evangelicals enjoy telling non-believers that they are hellbound, some militant atheists spend too much time making fun of religions and religious people and their beliefs. I know I've seen the term "Sky Daddy" here more than once. lol

Here's another question: Why do some believers want to insist that atheism is a form of religion?

True. Pushy assholes regardless of their beliefs...and atheism is most certainly a belief. LOL

A religion involves trappings, dogma, rules, etc. One can believe in the teachings of Jesus without belonging to a Christian religion.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

A spiritual atheist is someone who believes in and experiences spirituality, often finding meaning and connection to the universe, while rejecting the existence of supernatural deities or religious dogma. They might find meaning in the interconnectedness of all things, wonder at the universe's vastness, or experience awe and wonder through scientific understanding.

Here's a more detailed look:
Key Characteristics:

• • Rejects supernatural deities:
    Spiritual atheists don't believe in gods, goddesses, or other supernatural beings.
  • Experiences spirituality:
    They may experience a sense of connection to something larger than themselves, the universe, or the natural world.
  • Finds meaning in other ways:
    They might find meaning in scientific understanding, relationships, personal growth, or the natural world.
  • May engage in spiritual practices:
    They might practice meditation, contemplation, or other practices that help them connect with their inner selves or the world around them.

Thanks. Someone finally described me. Was this through Grok?

 

[AProudLefty]

Thanks. Someone finally described me. Was this through Grok?

Through Google AI.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Mostly true, and mostly because the subject isn't relevant to them.

The use of child soldiers in Southern Sudan aren't relevant to the lives of most Americans, but humanitarians are still concerned.

If a militant atheist wants to attack those who believe in an afterlife or a creator, fine, but when they stop there and don't question the origin of existence then it strikes me as a non sequitur.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed on belief system. They believe something without supporting facts.
Simply, yes, but the deeper discussion is, like the Buddhists atheists claim to be fellow atheists, there are atheists who believe in an afterlife be it on another plane of existence or reincarnation. Again, that's a belief without supporting facts.

Good point.
Anyone who believes in an afterlife, a transcendent reality beyond the physical realm is not really an atheist. They might reject the God of Abraham, but they are not an atheist. The dictionary does not define atheist as someone who disbelieves the God of Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad.

I'm not a religious person meaning dogmatic beliefs, but I do believe in an existence beyond the mortal. I also believe there is an intelligence at work behind existence. The name "God" is simply a placeholder for that intelligence.

And I'm sure that you base that on experience and evidence, not blind faith.

I used to lean towards strict atheism, and believed that nothing was real but matter and energy.

I still think blind faith is a bad idea, but have come to realize that faith can be, and is often, based on rational evidence. I do not discount the idea that the mathematical organization and strict precision with which the universe is ordered might be a type of revelation of a higher power, an eternal logos, a universal Tao.

 

[AProudLefty]

Thanks. Someone finally described me. Was this through Grok?

This is what Grok says:


Spiritual atheism is a belief system that combines atheism—rejecting belief in gods or deities—with a sense of spirituality, meaning, or connection to something greater than oneself. It emphasizes personal growth, ethical living, and experiences like awe, wonder, or transcendence without invoking supernatural or religious frameworks.

Spiritual atheists may find meaning in nature, human relationships, art, or the universe's vastness, often drawing from philosophies like humanism, existentialism, or pantheism. Practices such as meditation, mindfulness, or community involvement can be part of it, but they’re grounded in a naturalistic worldview rather than divine or mystical beliefs.

For example, someone might feel a profound connection to the cosmos while stargazing, viewing it as a "spiritual" experience, yet maintain that no deity or supernatural force is involved. It’s about embracing life’s depth and mystery while staying rooted in reason and skepticism.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Good point.
Anyone who believes in an afterlife, a transcendent reality beyond the physical realm is not really an atheist. They might reject the God of Abraham, but they are not an atheist. The dictionary does not define atheist as someone who disbelieves the God of Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad.

And I'm sure that you base that on experience and evidence, not blind faith.

I used to lean towards strict atheism, and believed that nothing was real but matter and energy.

I still think blind faith is a bad idea, but have come to realize that faith can be, and is often, based on rational evidence. I do not discount the idea that the mathematical organization and strict precision with which the universe exists might be a type of revelation of a higher power, an eternal logos, a universal Tao.

Agreed. It seems most "atheists" are simply anti-Christian since they rarely attack Judaism or Islam.

Good point about blind faith and agree it's a bad idea.
OTOH, there's the IQ bell curve and levels of education in America to factor into the equation.

 

[Cypress]

It is the absence of belief in what cannot be seen or measured -- a soul. Afterlife. A deity.

I think soul is a western concept, and some religions don't have a creator deity, or an afterlife in the western sense.

So are we defining atheist as someone who just disbelieves western concepts of religion?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

This is what Grok says:


Spiritual atheism is a belief system that combines atheism—rejecting belief in gods or deities—with a sense of spirituality, meaning, or connection to something greater than oneself. It emphasizes personal growth, ethical living, and experiences like awe, wonder, or transcendence without invoking supernatural or religious frameworks.

Spiritual atheists may find meaning in nature, human relationships, art, or the universe's vastness, often drawing from philosophies like humanism, existentialism, or pantheism. Practices such as meditation, mindfulness, or community involvement can be part of it, but they’re grounded in a naturalistic worldview rather than divine or mystical beliefs.

For example, someone might feel a profound connection to the cosmos while stargazing, viewing it as a "spiritual" experience, yet maintain that no deity or supernatural force is involved. It’s about embracing life’s depth and mystery while staying rooted in reason and skepticism.

Isn't a "spiritual experience" with nature more about feelings than faith in something beyond the natural universe?

No doubt those feelings can be powerful. @Cypress and myself have discussed the human appreciation of beauty such as a majestic mountain range or sunset. I lean more towards the appreciation of beauty being taught whereas he leans more towards it being innate.

 

[Cypress]

Hmm. So when we drive across a bridge, most of us believe that it's perfectly safe. Is our faith in the engineers and construction workers who put it there a religion? Why or why not?

Yes, it's faith in the ability and competence of the engineers and inspectors who design and maintain the integrity of the bridge over the decades.

There is a distinction between blind faith, and faith based on evidence.

We have good reason to assume there is good evidence for the competence of the designers and inspectors of the bridge.

Blind faith in religion is for fools. Most intelligent Christians, Jews, and Buddhists have evidence from experience or from logical deduction that there is more to the universe than atomic matter and energy.

 

[Cypress]

Buddhism is religion without a specific deity.

So is Taoism.

 

[Cypress]

Isn't a "spiritual experience" with nature more about feelings than faith in something beyond the natural universe?

No doubt those feelings can be powerful. @Cypress and myself have discussed the human appreciation of beauty such as a majestic mountain range or sunset. I lean more towards the appreciation of beauty being taught whereas he leans more towards it being innate.

I've never agreed with the idea that looking at sunsets, trees, or stars is spiritual.

It might be gratifying, stunning, or electrifying.

But the minute it starts to be called spiritual, we are invoking the word "spirit", which is obviously a hat tip to a belief in a higher, transcendent reality beyond the physical world. At that point, you are not strictly talking about atheism. Native American and African religions have been believed in that kind of natural religion for thousands of years - anthropologists call it animism. And yes, it involves spirits.

 

[Cypress]

Atheism absolutely is NOT a religion...and atheism absolutely is a belief system.

As humans, all we really have is faith and belief.

Proof is only possible in the strict mathematical sense.

And most of us are not writing or discovering mathematical theorems.

The standard for me is that there has to be evidence to support a belief. Belief can't be based on blind faith.

Ultimately, we need to ask ourselves if our faith in our spouse, faith in our friends, faith in our religion, or faith in our ideology of physical materialism is justified on the basis of experience or evidence.