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The Almighty
No, they are proposing that the government raise taxes on everyone because it benefits them. It is just another example of the greed of the unions.
Save our Schools....raise my taxes!
- Thread starter Taichiliberal
- Start date
No, they are proposing that the government raise taxes on everyone because it benefits them. It is just another example of the greed of the unions.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Just made your statement logically consistent and factually incorrect.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Stop acting like a child....READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE. The sentence you refer to points out that the local STATE gov't was going to cut schools via funding to save money.....the people were saying that you could cut various programs and practices in gov't before you do this. It's the age old argument of workers baring the brunt of fiscal problems while management retains their personal wealth.YOU CAN'T BE AGAINST "BIG GOVERNMENT" IF YOU ARE TRYING TO GET "BIG GOVERNMENT" TO DO IT'S JOB BY THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE. It's a matter of getting the bureaucrats to do the jobs they were elected to do wisely, properly and fairly.
See Southy, teabagger slogans don't carry much weight once you actually start to THINK AND REASON beyond them.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Evidently, you didn't read the article....because it's not just about teacher's salaries alone....it's about teachers, home care and social service agency workers. Like I told Southy, it's the age old contention of a company's budget being balanced on the back of the workers while management sits fat and happy.
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Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
1. Evidently, you didn't read the article carefully...because it's about home care and social service agency workers as well as teachers. Yes, the teachers union is the strongest, best organized representatives...but it's NOT just about them. Essentially, it's about the age old contention of balancing the budget on the backs of the workers and poor while management and the wealthy are left alone.
2. Evidently, you're clueless about such organizations as Freedomworks and it's connection to the teabaggers. Do your homework before you type....makes you look less ignorant.
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Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
You're not making sense....the tax would be from salaries to help pay for the services that the local gov't says they have no money for....teachers, social services, home care. Now if the Unions are evil greed incarnate as you imply, then they wouldn't go this route.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
YOU CAN'T BE AGAINST "BIG GOVERNMENT" IF YOU ARE TRYING TO GET "BIG GOVERNMENT" TO DO IT'S JOB BY THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE. It's a matter of getting the bureaucrats to do the jobs they were elected to do wisely, properly and fairly.
See Southy, teabagger slogans don't carry much weight once you actually start to THINK AND REASON beyond them.
The sentence that I referred to makes my case. You agree that the citizens want to cut the bureaucracy yet don't agree, apparently, that the bureaucracy is a symptom of big government.
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The Almighty
1) yes, there were other UNION groups there for the same exact reason.
2) balancing the budget on the backs of the workers and poor? Give me a fucking break. The bottom half of income earners pay NO federal income taxes. Many states are also tilted in the same manner. Again, this is about the unions trying to get the State to raise EVERYONE's taxes (hence the... raise our taxes chant) so that THEY can get more. They could care less about anyone other than themselves.
3) So to you, freedomworks is the corporation leading the tea party? LMAO... that is rich.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
THINK for a moment......cutting budget waste is NOT the same as removing gov't programs per se.....and if you are asking the gov't to increase your taxes to apply them to programs that are REGULATED BY THE GOV'T, that is not exactly being against "big government". See, you can cut back on spending, salaries, etc. and STILL maintain gov't as it is.Hope this clears things up for you.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
1) yes, there were other UNION groups there for the same exact reason.
No shit sherlock......Unions are made of people...people who are teachers, social workers, home care professionals, etc. They just didnt' show up because they felt like it. It was a response to a real situation.
2) balancing the budget on the backs of the workers and poor? Give me a fucking break. The bottom half of income earners pay NO federal income taxes. Many states are also tilted in the same manner. Again, this is about the unions trying to get the State to raise EVERYONE's taxes (hence the... raise our taxes chant) so that THEY can get more. They could care less about anyone other than themselves.
As for your distortion regarding the working poor and taxes:
But even citizens who pay no income tax still pay other kinds of taxes. They pay Social Security and Medicare taxes when they work, sales taxes when they buy things and property taxes on their homes. Drivers pay gasoline taxes, and smokers and drinkers pay excise taxes on tobacco and alcohol. According to our research, more than 75 percent of us will pay at least some form of federal tax in 2010.
Those who pay no federal taxes are mostly the low-income elderly or very poor families with children. Even about half of those with annual incomes under $10,000 pay some federal tax, most often payroll taxes on wages.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=901335
3) So to you, freedomworks is the corporation leading the tea party? LMAO... that is rich.
Laugh this one off, chuckles:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/09/lobbyists-planning-teaparties/
http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/13/corporate-lobyists-raising-money-for-tea-parties/
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The Almighty
you truly are not very bright are ya sport?
Both of those sites mention the grass roots lobbying effort of freedomworks.
Being a lobbyist is not the same as being corporate run you twit.
So once again you are wrong.
As for the rest of your dribble... everything I stated is correct with regards to the unions. No one suggested that they were not residents of the state. The point is... the ONLY reason they are suggesting IL 'raise taxes' is because it means more money from the working people to pay for their lavish pensions. What they are saying is 'take more money from the private workers and give it to us'.
What they are saying is...'we understand the private sector has been losing jobs while we have been getting pay raises and federal bailout money... now we want more'
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
gasp....you noticed?......then I guess the unions would too.....won't work then....can't slip nothing past a union man....
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Hey genius.....how can something be "grassroots" when it's funded and organized by a political lobbyist?
And as for corporate support, here's the tie in
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tea_Party_movement_funding
Bottom line: You need to stop braying like an ass everytime you THINK the neocon talking points substitute for actual FACTS and comprehensive knowledge of a situation.....makes you look less foolish.
And AGAIN.....the union folk are citizens, THEIR TAXES WILL BE RAISED ALSO, AND BE DISTRIBUTED TO ALL GROUPS AFFECTED BY THE CUTS. Bottom line: ON one hand you have jokers like you screaming about tax & spend liberals and too much big gov't...then when gov't wants to short change the people in education and social services, you have no problem because a solution is by unions in the affected groups.
Less teachers, less social services....affect children, elderly. ALL are paying into a system that is NOT cutting it....public support via taxes....because privatization sure as hell won't get the job done.
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Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Actually, its exactly the same. The State Constitution mandates that it provide education through high school. These folks want that, they just don't want the bureaucracy that grew out of it, creating six-figure administrative positions and tenured positions that aren't necessary to fulfill the goal. In other words, they don't want big government.
Hope this clears things up for you.
You read the folk's intentions wrong to suit your version of reality. Hope this clears things up for you.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
"Big gov't" is the phrase used by folks complaining of the real or perceived intrusion of the federal gov't into their daily lives that they think exceeds the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Once again, you overlook the FACT that they are NOT removing the bureaucracy altogether, but ADJUSTING it.....cut backs, trimining to make the bureaucracy MORE EFFICIENT! Remember, the advocacy is to cut back on the gov't side, not the teachers/social services side. You keep confusing total elimination of gov't bureaucracy with attempts to improve it. There was no call for total elimination of social services.
The "big government" still would exist...as it's necessary to do the job....it just won't exist in the present form...if the 15,000 est. protesters have their way. "Big gov't" is the phrase used by folks complaining of the real or perceived intrusion of the federal gov't into their daily lives that they think exceeds the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
And PLEASE restrain yourself from trying to condescend to me by parroting my writing style.....you'd have to be able to logically and factually prove your case first, and given your penchant for substituting your supposition and conjecture for facts and the logic derived from them, that's unlikely.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
"Big Government includes State and local government as well. And the cuts being protested are from the bottom-up, not the top down, so bureaucracy is being made less efficient. Again, from your link:
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
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The Almighty
Hey moron.... FREEDOM works is a grassroots organization. It has been for decades. IT is a political lobbying group.... NOT a corporation you moron.
Nope... no corporate tie in listed there. Sorry moron. You lose again.
You really are a brainwashed twit. Of course their taxes will also be raised, but THEY are asking for EVERYONE's taxes to be raised to save THEIR jobs. I don't fault them for trying, but quit pretending it is anything other than the Unions trying to save union jobs by asking the private sector to pay more in taxes (along with them) so that their jobs are safe.
Wow... that is impressive, you managed to jumble several Dem talking points all into one colossal mess of a sentence.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
And once again, you demonstrate the willfull ignorance and insipid stubborness of the neocon parrot. This is from one of my links that you obviously ignored:
FreedomWorks is run by ladies’ man (and registered lobbyist) Dick Armey, and if they’re not "organizing" the Tea parties, it’s news to them.
From the FreedomWorks website:
With your help, we have been able to organize hundreds of Taxpayer Tea Parties across the country, from Santa Barbara, California to Amarillo, Texas, and all the way to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
[]
If you are not able to organize or attend a Taxpayer Tea Party, you can still help the cause by donating or buying a t-shirt. You can also spread the word via email, facebook and word of mouth. If you would like to post updates on tea parties in your state, or if you’d like to get in touch with other people planning tea parties, visit our Tea Party HQ. We have created an interactive Google map that you can use to locate a tea party near you!
The "donation" for the Tea Parties page goes to — you guessed it — the FreedomWorks Foundation. The "thank you" lettter is signed by Matt Kibbe, President & CEO, who cut his teeth working for Lee Atwater. He was behind the attempt to get Ralph Nader put on the ballot in Oregon in 2004, prompting a complaint to the FEC of illegal collusion with the GOP.
FreedomWorks was launched a GOP version of MoveOn. "We believe that hard work beats daddy’s money," said Dick Armey at the time. Armey seems to be a bit irony challenged — Steve Forbes is on the FreedomWorks board. As Krugman notes, their money comes from the Koch, Scaife, Bradley, Olin and other reliable funders of right wing infrastructure including Exxon Mobil.
Here genius, combine this with what I cut & pasted above. Evidently, your reading comprehension skills leave MUCH to be desired.
Is appears that money to organize and implement the Movement is flowing primarily through two conservative groups: Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks.
In an April 9, 2009 article on ThinkProgress.org, Lee Fang reports that the principal organizers of the Tea Party movement are Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Works, two "lobbyist-run think tanks" that are "well funded" and that provide the logistics and organizing for the Tea Party movement from coast to coast. Media Matters reported that FreedomWorks receives substantial funding from David Koch of Koch Industries, the largest privately-held energy company in the country, and the conservative Koch Family Foundations, which make substantial annual donations to conservative organizations, including FreedomWorks (and its predecessor, Citizens for a Sound Economy) as well as other conservative think tanks advocacy groups, etc. Media Matters reports that the Koch family has given more than $12 million to CSE/FreedomWorks between 1985 and 2002.[1][2]
Media Matters also lists the Sarah Scaife Foundation as having given a total of $2.96 million in funding to FreedomWorks.[3] The Sarah Mellon Scaife Foundation is financed by the Mellon industrial, oil, and banking fortune. [4]
The Claude R. Lambe Foundation, also controlled by the Koch family, has donated more than $3 million to Americans for Prosperity.
Let me dumb it down for you......their jobs, which are to teach EVERYONE elses kids, to look after EVERYONE elses disabled or elderly family members, etc., ARE PAID FOR BY THEIR TAXES AND EVERYONE ELSES TAXES. Their jobs include servicing the "private sector" as well as the "public sector". Everyone's taxes pays for those services, which are pretty damned vital. The State here want's to short change the "private & publc sector" by cutting vital services. The solutionS offered, raise taxes and/or cut from the top (of local gov't instead). I'm more interested in seeing the local public response to these proposals, and not some distorted slobberings from jokers like you.
Translation: this blowhard cannot refute the logic in the statement that he excerpted, so in the true fashion of the intellectually bankrupt neocon he bluffs with insults. As my responses above show, there's nothing "super" about this wingnut "freak".