Let go the anchor!

Diogenes

Nemo me impune lacessit
66e38327da9f5.jpeg




There exists a clear rationale to justify the abolishment of birthright citizenship. The argument is straightforward, and it rests on history and precedent.

The Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment states: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

The first problem I see here is redundancy. If “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” simply means, as common parlance accepts, that one is subject to the law because of physical presence in the territory, that clause is redundant—"born in the United States” covers that base. An interpretation of a legal text that creates a redundancy is disfavored ged, in my experience.

“Subject to the jurisdiction thereof” means owing sole allegiance to the United States.

This was confirmed by one of the primary drafters of the clause, Sen. Lyman Trumbull, who stated “subject to the jurisdiction” meant subject to “complete” jurisdiction—“[n]ot owing allegiance to anybody else.”

Orginally, the Supreme Court agreed. Although dicta (for lazy/stupid people, that means non-binding comments by judges in opinions that although not essential to a case, may be cited as persuasive authority or lead to new legal rules in future cases), both the majority and the dissent in the Slaughter-House cases ( 83 U.S. 36,) agreed that the 14th Amendment’s “subject to the jurisdiction” clause excluded the children of citizens and subjects of foreign states who just happened to be born in the United States.

SCOTUS confirmed this in Elk v. Wilkins when it denied birthright citizenship to an Indian (note for @Truck Fump / h1b: not a visa entrant) born on a reservation who claimed citizenship as an adult. The Court held that the claim of birthright required him not to be “subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance.”

In a reversal of stare decisis, the Supreme Court changed direction in United States v. Wong Kim Ark. In that case, a Chinese man (note for @Truck Fump / h1b: not a visa entrant) born to permanent residents (who were barred by federal statute from obtaining full citizenship) claimed birthright citizenship, and the Court held Wong Kim Ark qualified for the 14th Amendments' birthright citizenship.

IMO, the aura this decision placed around Wong Kim Ark is much broader than even its holding, which addressed the child of legal permanent residents.

Birthright citizenship should, at the least, be limited to children of parents here legally. The situation we have today is absurd and untenable.

Cut the anchor!

For the victims of suicidal empathy, I'll add this: deportation of infants may be necessary under the law. Tough titty. For that to be required, a baby who isn’t a citizen has parents who aren't either. They can depart or be deported together.

Think of it as a version of the KFC Family Bucket meme.


iu
 
It's amazing to me that the hoary English common law precept Jus soli (for the stupid and/or lazy, that's "right of the soil") which specifically included fealty to the monarch/nation and excluded foreigners, was illogically conflated with the 14th amendment - which contains language specifically crafted to exclude the sam.

Wong, which also took great lengths to ensure that it specified the legal status of resident aliens it decided for has likewise been perverted

And all of the above ended up being the justification for birth tourism.

Cast loose the anchors, and prepare to make way!
 
Absolutely. Criminals should never be allowed to profit from their crimes. In this case, persons here illegally are by definition criminals in the ongoing act of committing a crime (illegal entry). Thus, if they have a child, that child in terms of citizenship would be the product of a crime. That means the child should not be granted citizenship on the basis of being the product of a crime with the intent to profit from that crime.

Now, as with the cases cited above, a child born in the US to illegally present parents should have the right to apply for citizenship upon reaching age of majority where if they can demonstrate they've long resided in the US, and have fealty to the US, that they should be granted citizenship. But that grant isn't automatic, and their parents should not be able to stay in the US as illegals.
 
66e38327da9f5.jpeg




There exists a clear rationale to justify the abolishment of birthright citizenship. The argument is straightforward, and it rests on history and precedent.

The Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment states: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

The first problem I see here is redundancy. If “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” simply means, as common parlance accepts, that one is subject to the law because of physical presence in the territory, that clause is redundant—"born in the United States” covers that base. An interpretation of a legal text that creates a redundancy is disfavored ged, in my experience.

“Subject to the jurisdiction thereof” means owing sole allegiance to the United States.

This was confirmed by one of the primary drafters of the clause, Sen. Lyman Trumbull, who stated “subject to the jurisdiction” meant subject to “complete” jurisdiction—“[n]ot owing allegiance to anybody else.”

Orginally, the Supreme Court agreed. Although dicta (for lazy/stupid people, that means non-binding comments by judges in opinions that although not essential to a case, may be cited as persuasive authority or lead to new legal rules in future cases), both the majority and the dissent in the Slaughter-House cases ( 83 U.S. 36,) agreed that the 14th Amendment’s “subject to the jurisdiction” clause excluded the children of citizens and subjects of foreign states who just happened to be born in the United States.

SCOTUS confirmed this in Elk v. Wilkins when it denied birthright citizenship to an Indian (note for @Truck Fump / h1b: not a visa entrant) born on a reservation who claimed citizenship as an adult. The Court held that the claim of birthright required him not to be “subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance.”

In a reversal of stare decisis, the Supreme Court changed direction in United States v. Wong Kim Ark. In that case, a Chinese man (note for @Truck Fump / h1b: not a visa entrant) born to permanent residents (who were barred by federal statute from obtaining full citizenship) claimed birthright citizenship, and the Court held Wong Kim Ark qualified for the 14th Amendments' birthright citizenship.

IMO, the aura this decision placed around Wong Kim Ark is much broader than even its holding, which addressed the child of legal permanent residents.

Birthright citizenship should, at the least, be limited to children of parents here legally. The situation we have today is absurd and untenable.

Cut the anchor!

For the victims of suicidal empathy, I'll add this: deportation of infants may be necessary under the law. Tough titty. For that to be required, a baby who isn’t a citizen has parents who aren't either. They can depart or be deported together.

Think of it as a version of the KFC Family Bucket meme.


iu

Apparently Trump's Sec of State, Marco Rubio is the child of two Cuban non-citizens (when he was born) so the elimination of the Birthright Citizenship raises the number of ILLEGAL ALIENS in the TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO TWO!!!!!

This is wonderful. So many Illegals in high office here in the US. I wonder if they will be put in the camps as well.
 
Apparently Trump's Sec of State, Marco Rubio is the child of two Cuban non-citizens (when he was born) so the elimination of the Birthright Citizenship raises the number of ILLEGAL ALIENS in the TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO TWO!!!!! This is wonderful. So many Illegals in high office here in the US. I wonder if they will be put in the camps as well.

Think so?
 
Think so?
Know so.

"His parents were Cubans who immigrated to the United States in 1956 during the regime of Fulgencio Batista, two and a half years before Fidel Castro ascended to power after the Cuban Revolution. His mother made at least four return trips to Cuba after Castro's takeover, including a month-long trip in 1961. Neither of Rubio's parents was a U.S. citizen at the time of Rubio's birth, but they applied for U.S. citizenship and were naturalized in 1975. Some relatives of Rubio's were admitted to the U.S. as refugees."
 
I don't recall ever pretending to have compassion for little Alan Kurdi, silly.

I do recall catching Y O U trying to blame Felonious Trump for his death, though. :nodyes:
I'll have to go back to the crypt and dig up your old posts, but unless you were trolling, you put up a good show of being sorry for his death. :nodyes:
 
Know so.

"His parents were Cubans who immigrated to the United States in 1956 during the regime of Fulgencio Batista, two and a half years before Fidel Castro ascended to power after the Cuban Revolution. His mother made at least four return trips to Cuba after Castro's takeover, including a month-long trip in 1961. Neither of Rubio's parents was a U.S. citizen at the time of Rubio's birth, but they applied for U.S. citizenship and were naturalized in 1975. Some relatives of Rubio's were admitted to the U.S. as refugees."


If I'd disputed those facts, you'd have a point.

Since I didn't, you don't.
 
What exactly did you mean by "Think so?" :unsure:
Apparently Trump's Sec of State, Marco Rubio is the child of two Cuban non-citizens (when he was born) so the elimination of the Birthright Citizenship raises the number of ILLEGAL ALIENS in the TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO TWO!!!!!

This is wonderful. So many Illegals in high office here in the US. I wonder if they will be put in the camps as well.

Let me know if you don't understand. :thup:
 
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