Did someone say 'no rationed medical care'?

ZappasGuitar said:
More spin from the Spin Queen!

Of course she's happy with privatized death panels...that's why all she did was sit on her thumbs and whine while some in this country tried to reform the status quo.

Of course NOW she's got all these great "no cost" ideas for reforming health insurance , but where was she and everyone else in the party of NO when healthcare was REALLY being debated?

Sitting on their well fed asses, shouting down anyone trying to engage in reasonable discussion.
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I've never seen any reasonable discussions by the left. Are you delusional? Yes, that must be it.
 
AssHatZombie said:
ok obama regurgitation machine. Get some original thoughts.
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Why should I ?

I'm still hearing about regurgitated nonsense about death panels and a Socialist takeover of our Government and how the Earth is going to go spinning off it's axis into deep space, all because we passed HCR.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
What can I say? It's been over two weeks and yet, not one asteroid has crashed into the Earth. Not one old person has been lined up and shot for being too old. I'm still able to say what I want and go where I want, despite all the fearmongering and dire warnings from the Right about how all those things would happen if we voted for HCR.

Maybe if you guys toned down the hyperbole two or three notches people might believe you, but all the dire predictions of apocalyptic doom are just plain stupid.
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You can stop mimicking Obama, for a start. You're going to be hit with taxes like you've never seen before.
 
Ice Dancer said:
No, we have a system of choice where people can buy insurance where they agree to specific rules when they buy it. We have a government that can and does regulate these private companies. We also have charitable organiztions that aid people who need treatment. We have Not For Profit hospitals that care for children with devestating illnesses FREE OF CHARGE to parents who have no insurance.

I have had to appeal to my state insurance regulator twice in the last 5 years. Once for a life insurance policy and once for an auto policy....both times I went through the very simple and easy to understand proccess, I won.

The government, on the other hand in selling this boondoggel, were emphatic that there would be no death panels...aka denial of service, and that people's private insurance would not change and in fact that they'd save money. It was all a lie and stupid lemming's that are nothing but party hacks, jumped on that bandwagon.

Health care reform could have been done smartly at little to no cost, but that would not have given 1/6 of the US economy to the feds...and THAT is why it was done the OBAMA way!
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You are contradicting yourself. You said "no" and death panels are one & the same.

By that definition, every insurance company has a death panel, and a quota for that death panel.

I'm not surprised that you aren't even aware of this.
 
Onceler said:
You are contradicting yourself. You said "no" and death panels are one & the same.

By that definition, every insurance company has a death panel, and a quota for that death panel.

I'm not surprised that you aren't even aware of this.
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Now the death panel will be centralized and guaranteed. Is that better?
 
Onceler said:
You are contradicting yourself. You said "no" and death panels are one & the same.

By that definition, every insurance company has a death panel, and a quota for that death panel.

I'm not surprised that you aren't even aware of this.
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Every private insurance company have policies clearly defined before you sign the dotted line. This means you enter into a contract for services or you CHOOSE not to. That contract is crystal clear what coverage you have. If they attempt to deny coverage not explicit in that contract you have avenues for redress. This means two things 1. That you knowningly purchase a procuct with specific allowances and disallowances by choice. 2. If they attempt to break that contract you have redress.

The government on the other hand forces you to buy a product that you may not want and that you are forced to accept on their terms...that you cannot see the differences, makes you the stupid lemming.
 
more false GED outrage. Is their one insurance company that doesn't now say no daily? My guess is democrats let a few republicans get in the troff line.
 
Ice Dancer said:
Every private insurance company have policies clearly defined before you sign the dotted line. This means you enter into a contract for services or you CHOOSE not to. That contract is crystal clear what coverage you have. If they attempt to deny coverage not explicit in that contract you have avenues for redress. This means two things 1. That you knowningly purchase a procuct with specific allowances and disallowances by choice. 2. If they attempt to break that contract you have redress.

The government on the other hand forces you to buy a product that you may not want and that you are forced to accept on their terms...that you cannot see the differences, makes you the stupid lemming.
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So explain to me how signing a contract with an insurance company that you know ahead of time has death panels making their end of life decisions based on whether their shareholders can make money off your life is ANY different than what you claim President Obama has in store for us?

I can hear her response now, well, at least what she'll say after her standard litany of fat jokes..."but I don't have a choice with Obama's Socialist healthcare"...

SURE YOU DO...simply sign with a private insurance company and let their death panels decide your fate.
 
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ID said the "no" means "death panels." Insurance companies say "no" every single day, for arbitrary reasons that have more to do with their quotas than reasonable standards they may have set.

A denial of coverage is a denial of coverage. I have never heard someone defend the insurance companies like this.
 
Onceler said:
ID said the "no" means "death panels." Insurance companies say "no" every single day, for arbitrary reasons that have more to do with their quotas than reasonable standards they may have set.

A denial of coverage is a denial of coverage. I have never heard someone defend the insurance companies like this.
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So fixing them permanently in law is the answer?
 
Onceler said:
ID said the "no" means "death panels." Insurance companies say "no" every single day, for arbitrary reasons that have more to do with their quotas than reasonable standards they may have set.

A denial of coverage is a denial of coverage. I have never heard someone defend the insurance companies like this.
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That's because you've never met anyone like ID, whose hatred of anything Left of center runs so deep it causes her to defend the indefensible.
 
I love how liberals keep harping on denial of coverage by private insurance companies, using it ass defense for government run insurance while completely ignoring the fact that historically medicare/medicaid is significantly MORE likely to turn down coverage for a given treatment (especially if the treatment is relatively new) than private companies. And it is going to get worse - already is getting worse - as the cutbacks in medicare (to pay for the health care fiasco bill) start to take effect.
 
Good Luck said:
I love how liberals keep harping on denial of coverage by private insurance companies, using it ass defense for government run insurance while completely ignoring the fact that historically medicare/medicaid is significantly MORE likely to turn down coverage for a given treatment (especially if the treatment is relatively new) than private companies. And it is going to get worse - already is getting worse - as the cutbacks in medicare (to pay for the health care fiasco bill) start to take effect.
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I'm not saying one or the other is better. I have only said that if your definition of "death panel" is "no," then we currently have a system of death panels with private insurance companies. To deny that is ludicrous.

I love how you didn't say anything about that, though.
 
Onceler said:
ID said the "no" means "death panels." Insurance companies say "no" every single day, for arbitrary reasons that have more to do with their quotas than reasonable standards they may have set.
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Insurance companies are not stupid. They are not going to deny coverage for a covered treatment when all it takes is a letter to one's state adjuster to get a review. Nor are their decisions "arbitrary". Any and all such claims against the private insurance industry are either made in complete ignorance of how contract law works, or are deliberate lies to continue the demonization of private insurance as the only means of defending government taking over.

As for denial of coverage, anyone with functional neurons inside their skull saw the writing on the wall for how government is going to act when mammograms were put on the chopping block, cutting back recommended start age and frequency, despite practically every doctor in the nations crying foul. And using medicare cutbacks to help pay for the costs of health care "reform" (what a fucking lie!) just shows a continuation of the way government is going to "reform" health care.
 
Onceler said:
I'm not saying one or the other is better. I have only said that if your definition of "death panel" is "no," then we currently have a system of death panels with private insurance companies. To deny that is ludicrous.

I love how you didn't say anything about that, though.
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When have you ever heard me use the term "death panels" in reference to denying coverage for medical treatments?
 
Onceler said:
ID said the "no" means "death panels." Insurance companies say "no" every single day, for arbitrary reasons that have more to do with their quotas than reasonable standards they may have set.

A denial of coverage is a denial of coverage. I have never heard someone defend the insurance companies like this.
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You completely ignored the gist of my response.

Denial by a private insurer is hardly abitrary. As I said, you, the consumer, agree to terms of the policy which by law must be clear and specific as it relates to coverage. You can either purchase it or not. With a government plan you are forced to carry it or a private plan, period. Meaning you must accept the kinds and amts. of coverage whether you want to or not. Coercion is not choice it is loss of freedom. This makes what the government does with regards to "death panels" or as is parsed, denial of coverage, the ultimate in hubris!
 
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Ice Dancer said:
You completely ignored the gist of my response.

Denial by a private insurer is hardly abitrary. As I said, you, the consumer, agree to terms of the policy which by law must be clear and specific as it relates to coverage. You can either purchase it or not. With a government plan you are forced to carry it or a private plan, period. Meaning you must accept the kinds and amts. of coverage whether you want to or not. Coersian is not choice it is loss of freedom. This makes what the government does with regards to "death panels" or as is parsed, denial of coverage, the ultimate in hubris!
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The idea that insurance companies only deny coverage for non-covered claims is total bullshit. I'm more than willing to debate the merits of a government run system (which we do not and will not have in the foreseeable future) but not with those that lie about private insurance company denials of coverage (to say nothing of the pernicious practice of "rescissions").
 
Ice Dancer said:
You completely ignored the gist of my response.

Denial by a private insurer is hardly abitrary. As I said, you, the consumer, agree to terms of the policy which by law must be clear and specific as it relates to coverage. You can either purchase it or not. With a government plan you are forced to carry it or a private plan, period. Meaning you must accept the kinds and amts. of coverage whether you want to or not. Coercion is not choice it is loss of freedom. This makes what the government does with regards to "death panels" or as is parsed, denial of coverage, the ultimate in hubris!
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You don't know too much about the health insurance industry, do you?
 
NigelTufnel said:
The idea that insurance companies only deny coverage for non-covered claims is total bullshit. I'm more than willing to debate the merits of a government run system (which we do not and will not have in the foreseeable future) but not with those that lie about private insurance company denials of coverage (to say nothing of the pernicious practice of "rescissions").
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I also addressed the issue of when someone is wrongfully denied, and you ignored that response as well. I have had denial of coverage happen twice in the past 5 years, once with auto, once with life. I filed my complaints with the Washington State Office of the Insurance Commissioner and won both times. The proccess was both easy and quick. You see, regulatory oversight, is the effective and Constititional role of government with regards to the private system.
 
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