Running on Repeal

[Bonestorm]

translation of nigel english:

i am the hypocrite i whine others are

Your translator is busted. My point is so simplistic even you can understand it: to the extent that the pre-vote polls were a decent, albeit imperfect, barometer of public opinion toward HCR, this poll is a decent, albeit imperfect, barometer of where public opinion is moving.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

i think running on repeal is a bad platform, how about running on a platform of AMENDing the legislation as it seems clear the majority of americans want some form of h/c reform

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Your translator is busted. My point is so simplistic even you can understand it: to the extent that the pre-vote polls were a decent, albeit imperfect, barometer of public opinion toward HCR, this poll is a decent, albeit imperfect, barometer of where public opinion is moving.

translation of nigel speak:

if i keep speaking in nigel blather speak, i might fool just one person and then i can sleep well tonight

 

[Bonestorm]

i think running on repeal is a bad platform, how about running on a platform of AMENDing the legislation as it seems clear the majority of americans want some form of h/c reform

The trouble with that strategy is that when you've spent the past 6+ months denouncing a bill as the end of America as we know it, socialism, the product of a tyrannical regime and the biggest infringement on liberty in the history of the country, it is a bit difficult to run on a message of "it's not all bad."

 

[Bonestorm]

translation of nigel speak:

if i keep speaking in nigel blather speak, i might fool just one person and then i can sleep well tonight

Shorter Yurt:

I agree with Nigel that running on repeal is a bad idea, but I'm a knee-jerk reactionary so I have attack something.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

The trouble with that strategy is that when you've spent the past 6+ months denouncing a bill as the end of America as we know it, socialism, the product of a tyrannical regime and the biggest infringement on liberty in the history of the country, it is a bit difficult to run on a message of "it's not all bad."

no wonder you don't see your nigel speak as bizarre, i never said what you claimed

republicans have been about going back to the drawing board and fixing things in this bill...running on a platform to make h/c reform better is not a problem, its only hacks like you that will whine and stomp your little feet and cry hypocrisy because you can't admit the truth

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Shorter Yurt:

I agree with Nigel that running on repeal is a bad idea, but I'm a knee-jerk reactionary so I have attack something.

you are deranged. my comment on your hypocrisy has nothing to do with whether i agree that running on repeal is a bad idea. my reasons do not rest on a poll that i used to hypocritically denounce as meaningless.

see the difference

 

[Topspin]

Run on repealing prohibition, make more room for the serious criminals being let out.

 

[Damocles]

No one should trust the resident site Democrat party man on strategy for the Republicans.
If government healthcare reform can be repealed in Liberal Hawaii and Oregon, it sure as hell has the support for the nation.

I wonder what Apple has to say about their repeal in those states?

 

[Bonestorm]

no wonder you don't see your nigel speak as bizarre, i never said what you claimed

republicans have been about going back to the drawing board and fixing things in this bill...running on a platform to make h/c reform better is not a problem, its only hacks like you that will whine and stomp your little feet and cry hypocrisy because you can't admit the truth

Whatever, guy. We're discussing our opinions of whether certain strategies would be effective. There is no underlying "truth" about that.

I understand you're a reactionary douchebag that feels the need to attack others due to you intellectual inferiority complex, but please.

 

[Obfuscate]

I've never voted down party lines in my life and typically vote for many 3rd parties but this November it will be Republican down the ticket for both my wife and I. It's not just because of repeal this law but that's certainly part of it, it is also all the Keynesian nonsense that hasn't worked and only made things worse like it always does.

 

[Topspin]

I've never voted down party lines in my life and typically vote for many 3rd parties but this November it will be Republican down the ticket for both my wife and I. It's not just because of repeal this law but that's certainly part of it, it is also all the Keynesian nonsense that hasn't worked and only made things worse like it always does.

check back with us after you see GDP growing between now and then

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Whatever, guy. We're discussing our opinions of whether certain strategies would be effective. There is no underlying "truth" about that.

I understand you're a reactionary douchebag that feels the need to attack others due to you intellectual inferiority complex, but please.

you're the one misconstruing my words, hypocritically relying on polls to justify your stance, yet you have not problem attacking others for relying on polls. then you whine about my attacks, yet call me a douchebag with an intellectual inferiority complex.....

that you don't see your own hypocrisy and outright intellectual dishonesty.... is unfortunately not surprising

 

[KingCondanomation]

I'm not offering strategy advice, I'm discussing the prospects of the repeal strategy being effective. From my perspective, it doesn't look good and I hope the Republicans decide to pursue the "Repeal It!" strategy.

You are a liar, why would you try and "help" economic Conservatives that you oppose by knowingly throwing out some material that would obviously persuade them from dropping the idea of repealing your socialist healthcare "reform".
Why not try and be honest rather than the cypress strategy that people will notice after awhile, you do not want it repealed and your motives as a very clear Liberal Democrat are to try and stop it from being repealed.

Again if it can work politically in Hawaii where Conservatives are near non-existant, it sure as hell is politically possible for the nation as a whole. Count the days, that fucking piece of shit freedom limiting, high spending legislation is walking dead and you know it.

 

[Jarod]

Reid is at 8%. Pelosi is at 11%. They must be doing a fantastic job.

I see, now all the sudden its about being popular, its a popularity contest, but when Bush's numbers were in the toilet, it was because he was brave enough to stand up for what is right!

 

[Bonestorm]

You are a liar, why would you try and "help" economic Conservatives that you oppose by knowingly throwing out some material that would obviously persuade them from dropping the idea of repealing your socialist healthcare "reform".
Why not try and be honest rather than the cypress strategy that people will notice after awhile, you do not want it repealed and your motives as a very clear Liberal Democrat are to try and stop it from being repealed.

I'm not offering strategy advice. I agree that taking the advice of those trying to defeat you is not a good idea. I said the same thing when Republicans were warning that passage of the bill would be the death of the Democratic Party. I'm simply commenting on whether the "Repeal It!" strategy
is likely to be effective.

And what's up with calling me a liar? I'm offering my opinion. You disagree with it. Why the childishness?

Again if it can work politically in Hawaii where Conservatives are near non-existant, it sure as hell is politically possible for the nation as a whole. Count the days, that fucking piece of shit freedom limiting, high spending legislation is walking dead and you know it.

Whether a repeal strategy can achieve it's goal of actual repeal and whether a repeal it strategy is an effective campaign message are two separate questions. On the first, the bill will not be repealed until a Democrat is no longer president. On the second, maybe the strategy will work, maybe it won't. If the results of this poll are indicative of a trend, as I think they are, it won't be all that effective.

 

[Bonestorm]

you're the one misconstruing my words, hypocritically relying on polls to justify your stance, yet you have not problem attacking others for relying on polls. then you whine about my attacks, yet call me a douchebag with an intellectual inferiority complex.....

that you don't see your own hypocrisy and outright intellectual dishonesty.... is unfortunately not surprising

Show me one post where I attacked someone for relying on polls as opposed to pointing out the potential shortcoming of the poll itself.

And I'm not hypocritically doing anything. Even a flawed poll can be useful if you track it over time because it can reveal a trend. In this instance, notwithstanding the shortcoming of the polls, they are useful at identifying a trend towards approval of the bill.

 

[KingCondanomation]

I'm not offering strategy advice. I agree that taking the advice of those trying to defeat you is not a good idea. I said the same thing when Republicans were warning that passage of the bill would be the death of the Democratic Party. I'm simply commenting on whether the "Repeal It!" strategy
is likely to be effective.

And what's up with calling me a liar? I'm offering my opinion. You disagree with it. Why the childishness?

You are not just offering your opinion, you are offering your evidence too and you are doing so because you don't want it to even be tried as you know there is a decent chance it will be repealed.

Whether a repeal strategy can achieve it's goal of actual repeal and whether a repeal it strategy is an effective campaign message are two separate questions. On the first, the bill will not be repealed until a Democrat is no longer president. On the second, maybe the strategy will work, maybe it will. If the results of this poll are indicative of a trend, as I think they are, it won't be all that effective.

We will see, I believe Oregon's and Hawaii's gov healthcare initiatives were certainly popular enough to pass but once the real cost was in, was bloated and was felt, they were repealed.

Certainly the wrong strategy in fighting social welfare is to allow it to fester over an entire generation and enough people become dependent on it that outweigh those who take the pain in paying for it. Let's all remember that a lot of the provisions in the bill don't take effect til years from now, so what better time to strike than now.

 

[Bonestorm]

This is a decent campaign strategy:

As the Senate gets closer to voting on a health care reconciliation bill, the Republican strategy to derail the Democrats' plans is getting creative--and dirty. Their strategy is clear: with Democrats determined to pass a clean bill, Republicans will force them to vote down politically juiced-up amendments, and likely turn them into political ads meant to characterize Dems as sympathetic to sex offenders and fraudsters.

Sen. David Vitter (R-LA) got it started by filing the first two amendments: one to repeal the 'government takeover of health care,' and another to block federal funding of ACORN (the community organizing group that folded yesterday). Just behind him came Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), who wants to make Democrats vote, among other things, on an amendment that "prohibit the new health care exchanges from providing coverage of Viagra and other erectile dysfunction drugs to convicted child molesters and rapists." Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) got in on the act, authoring an amendment to strip all special deals out of the health care bill.

The goal is simple. To expedite its passage, Democrats need to keep the changes to the reconciliation bill to a minimum, and so have committed to voting down all amendments, even ones that they like. And Republicans want to turn those votes into negative campaign ads ahead of this November's election.

Once the votes are cast, the ads all but write themselves.

"Senator X voted to preserve sex offenders' right to Viagra."

"Senator Y wants your tax dollars to go to ACORN."

On Fox News this morning, Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH) forecast it ever so slightly. "It looks like the democrats are going to walk in lockstep and oppose amendments that would make a lot of sense, which would significantly approve the bill," Gregg said. "But they're just going to vote everything down."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...dems-into-tough-health-care-votes.php?ref=fpa

 

[Jarod]

OVERCOMING history!

Here's the thing... Pinhead Liberals weakness is, the inability to comprehend unintended consequences. This bill is a classic example. In order to get it passed, the Democrats have pulled out all the stops and promised us all the moon and stars, and frankly, they will not be able to deliver. Think about the fairy-tale scenario they have presented, where we insure the uninsured, as well as the uninsurable, take a half trillion from Medicare and claim we are extending the life of Medicare, and this will not cost us more money, but it will actually reduce the deficit. We are going to create hundreds, if not thousands, of new government agencies, and it's not going to cost us a dime... budget neutral! That is what they have told us, and it's a bald faced lie, and every honest person in America knows it's a lie. The truth is, this bill is massive in cost and future liability, unfunded mandates as baby boomers retire... this thing will NOT fly, we don't have enough rich bastards to tax... hell, we don't have enough rich bastards to assault and roll, and take everything they own, to pay for what this will end up costing us. But because Nancy and The Boys used Bernie Madolff's playbook with the CBO and the numbers, the Democrats can strut around claiming a bunch of absolute horseshit is the truth.... and empty-headed nitwits like you will believe it!

So we have this massive behemoth of a budget buster, and unprecedented governmental control over our personal lives, into our personal affairs, and effecting our everyday life.... and you don't think people are going to be upset about that? Well, maybe people who want to keep their deadbeat 26-year-old living at home and on their insurance, maybe they will love this bill... but those of us who's children and grandchildren are going to grow up and have to pay for this shit, are not amused.

Another unintended consequence, is the jobs this is going to cost. There is no clear study on just how huge the impact will be, but you can bet it will be significant... Democrats haven't thought one moment about this, they don't care! Yeah, we will gain a few thousand government jobs to regulate everything, but small business, who hires most of the people in America, are going to be faced with insurmountable roadblocks to hiring new employees, because of the mandates and regulations for insurance coverage. Suddenly, hiring those few extra people for the Summer rush, is not such a good idea, because you are going to be obligated to provide insurance, and your insurance company is going to require you have potential employees examined medically before they hire them, and it will be a great big mess that no small businessman wants to deal with, so he will simply make do with what he has.

Then there is the unintended consequence of Doctor shortages. We know that back a few months ago, they did a survey and found 47% of practicing physicians said they would consider leaving the practice, if the Health Care bill became the law... well, it is law... what do you think might happen? We certainly aren't likely to GAIN doctors, and we are injecting, what? 20-30 million more patients into the system, you do the math... oh, that's right, you people are too fucking stupid to do the math...

And that reminds me.... Stupack is, as Stupack does! ...yet another bone of contention out there, which is going to cause Democrats some major problems with the electorate.

Yeah, bud... you better hope that by November, everyone is fully employed, no one is sick, and we all have petunia's blossoming out our ass... 'cause, short of that, you are going to lose big time in the mid-terms.

SO here is the deal, in supreme weakness, the Republicans had to attack this bill in an effort to prevent if from being passed. They had to make up all kinds of stuff about it, and claim that its passage would be the end of America as we know it. Most Conservatives belived that individuals were not going to be allowed to stay with the same policies they currently have....!

When they woke up Monday morning and the Hammer and Sickle did not appear on every American flag, the REpublicans already appeared to have been lying. They failed at preventing the bill from being passed, and have already lost creditability because we are not all locked in our houses this week under house arrest by the Guistapo.

In a year when people are still not adversly affected by this bill, in fact they will be happily impressed by it, the Republicns will have lost even more creditability.

Sure they will use it to whip up the 30% base that will always hate the bill, but they will loose the independents in the process, especally if they keep up this "overthrow the socialist" anger and hate that they are currently spewing.

The people know President Obama is a reasonable man, the majoriy will only be turned off by this hate.

History is against the Democrats maintaining control of the House and maybe the Sennate this comming election, but if the Republicans keep up the overeaching... the Democrats just might overcome history!