I have read that he could not spell in German or English.
House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it
- Thread starter Cancel10
- Start date
I have read that he could not spell in German or English.
apple0154
MEOW
Medicare, because it only covers the elderly, can't be anything but a drain. That's when people require the most medical attention. Wasn't there talk about extending Medicare? How far did that go?
They won't vote to extend medicare to everyone because that would be a universal plan and the people making money off the illness of others don't want that.
Ideally, Medicare would cover everyone and the contributions from the young and healthy would make up for the elderly and ill but certain powers don't want that so it would never pass.
As time passes the government will be obliged to adjust Obama's plan. The point is the only way to adjust a medical plan is to include more people like every other country has done.
Regardless of the specifics of a plan every country has concluded everyone has to be included. Obama's plan is a start. Otherwise, nothing would get started. We've seen that for over 45 years.
If talks started again people would try to get more inclusions or less inclusions depending on their point of view. At least there is a plan now. Far from perfect but a start. Once the citizens begin to see the benefits progressive governments will be obliged to deal with it. They won't have the option of ignoring it. They'll have to come up with ideas that keep the plan and the only idea that saves money is to include everyone.
Dozens of countries have been down this road. All, without exception, found out everyone had to be included. The special interests, be it doctors or investors in clinics or drug companies found out that regardless of their ideas the bottom line was everyone had to be included. That was a parameter of any debate and that's what's needed. The citizens of those countries with universal plans insist on that parameter but until that parameter is established the debates go all over the field and nothing happens.
I see that to be the purpose of Obama's plan. Any ideas must be focused on covering more people until everyone is covered.
1. I'm not talking about reconciliation.
2. Yes.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Bottom line: The Dems are not using any procedure that the GOP didn't ad nauseum during it's reign under the Shrub, much less more slick shennanigans going back to Reagan (as David Stockman once explained exactly how Reaganomics got passed in the wee hours of the morning).
What's happening is that the Dems are VERY close to passing a healthcare reform bill....no matter how watered down and compromised by the GOP, Dixie/Blue Dog Dems....that could open up the possibility for more reform in the near future. That "success" for Obama is what the GOP has been dead set against from the jump, as DeMint so aptly expressed. So the GOP noise machine will lie, distort, slander, and "fear monger" to the hilt, knowing that their low information supporters will lap up the dogma.
What's happening is that the Dems are VERY close to passing a healthcare reform bill....no matter how watered down and compromised by the GOP, Dixie/Blue Dog Dems....that could open up the possibility for more reform in the near future. That "success" for Obama is what the GOP has been dead set against from the jump, as DeMint so aptly expressed. So the GOP noise machine will lie, distort, slander, and "fear monger" to the hilt, knowing that their low information supporters will lap up the dogma.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Isn't that the truth. Hypocrisy runs rampant with these people.
Hypocrisy: A Parliamentary Procedure
Any veteran observer of Congress is used to the rampant hypocrisy over the use of parliamentary procedures that shifts totally from one side to the other as a majority moves to minority status, and vice versa. But I can’t recall a level of feigned indignation nearly as great as what we are seeing now from congressional Republicans and their acolytes at the Wall Street Journal, and on blogs, talk radio, and cable news. It reached a ridiculous level of misinformation and disinformation over the use of reconciliation, and now threatens to top that level over the projected use of a self-executing rule by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
In the last Congress that Republicans controlled, from 2005 to 2006, Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier used the self-executing rule more than 35 times, and was no stranger to the concept of “deem and pass.” That strategy, then decried by the House Democrats who are now using it, and now being called unconstitutional by WSJ editorialists, was defended by House Republicans in court (and upheld). Dreier used it for a $40 billion deficit reduction package so that his fellow GOPers could avoid an embarrassing vote on immigration. I don’t like self-executing rules by either party—I prefer the “regular order”—so I am not going to say this is a great idea by the Democrats. But even so—is there no shame anymore?
http://blog.american.com/?p=11467
I was thinking about this last night, to me, its not any less constitutional than a fillabuster.
Under the Constitution, majority rules, yet under Senate rules to call a vote you need more than a majority.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Here's the thing Christie.....there's a LOT in this last version that I don't like.....the insurance companies keeping there exemption from anti-trust laws, the smaller states not getting a better share of allocation for Medicare (or is it Medicaid?). But not only is there hypocrisy on the GOP's part, but the sheer denial of reality....they keep bullhorning about "secrecy" when they've been appraised on every version of this reform for over a year....that's why there's no single payer or public option to be seen!
And when all is said and done, the damned thing might not pass anyway! Oh well, hope springs eternal.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Its never been used to spend money except by Democrats. The GOP has used it to control the budget in spite of Democrat objections:
http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2010/mar/19/democrats-consider-old-maneuver-for-health-bill/
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
I don't think Democrats will use this procedure, but seriously, it's hilarious to see how up-in-arms Republicans are able to get over a common procedure that has been used over centuries, even by their own party. When Democrats do something, it's a communist revolution. When Republicans do something, well, election have consequences.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
As opposed for tax cuts for the rich....even during a "war"?:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200905110007
http://www.google.com/search?q=GOP+...ine_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CCYQ5wIwCg
Last edited:
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Deflection of the point raised because it destroyed your argument.
TuTu Monroe
A Realist
Medicare doesn't just cover the elderly. It also covers the disabled and low-income individuals.
apple0154
MEOW
Thanks for the correction.
It's no wonder medicare costs a lot when only covering the people who require the most medical attention; the elderly, the disabled and the poor. It can't be accurately compared to a single payer system where healthy people balance it out.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Not deflection...examples showing that your alluding to Dems only guilt is a fallacy. Because if you think that what I sourced doesn't affect your wallet, then you are seriously ignorant of our country's financial woes.
Last edited:
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Name ONE procedure used by the Dems for the current healthcare reform bill that has NOT been used by the GOP in the last 30 years.