Americans reject Obama European style socialism

[Mott the Hoople]

People might support reform, but the Republicans in Congress do not. They just want you to think they support reform and you gratefully oblige them.

Republicans will eventually. That's just a matter of time. I'm actually surprized that it almost went through this time when health care cost had risen from 10% of GDP in 1992 to 16% in 2009. I was figuring that it probably wouldn't happend till it hit 20% and it looks like I may be right. I can't imagine the status quo continuing till the problem eats up 25% of GDP.

What bothers me about all the passionate opposition to health care reform I see on here from those opposed is no constructive dialogue on what to do to reform our system. Just a bunch of sensless shouting of "Socialism!"

 

[Mott the Hoople]

The UK and New Zealand have nationalized health insurance systems; Canada has a single payer. I'm pretty sure everyone else has some sort of system more hybrid than Canada's.

The thing is that in most countries proportional representation forced them to work with conservatives to craft a universal system; it's no secret why the only countries in the world to have a single member district parliamentary system have relatively radical healthcare systems (in the case of NZ and the UK, socialist parties had absolute control, in the case of Canada, a Liberal party did).

The reason the US doesn't have it or some more moderate system is because the Democrats are so divided and don't really represent a serious left-wing opposition. So anytime anyone proposes it, "moderate" Democrats scream socialism. If it weren't for this, UHC would've been part of the SS bill in the 30's, and tens of millions of American lives would've been saved over the past century.

You may actually have a valid point there.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

The bill is a violation of the 10th Amendment. The Democrats will rue the day they ever let it happen.

If that's true then you have a conservative leaning SCOTUS to over turn it. So what are you afraid of?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

This will be the most popular program in American history, the one thing we're most proud of as a nation, and the millions of lives we're saving that your trying to take will thank us. Bring it on, you piece of shit.

Again, I think you make a valid point. I think when UHC is eventually implemented and has time to demonstrate it's affectiveness a lot of people will be slapping their heads and saying "Why the hell didn't we do this sooner."

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

When they see it in action, we'll see that most of the people who "opposed" it actually did so mainly because of Republican lies about things that aren't actually in the bill - certainly more than the mere 10% or so needed to get majority support for it. If it is passed, it will be an immensely popular program. When crafting legislative policy, you can't blink and give up everytime a negative poll comes out.

And here's the thing. If the Democrats pass it, they'll be judged by what actually happens. If they don't, they'll be judged by Republican lies.

 

[DamnYankee]

NO...you don't understand what I said. Most of Europe does not have Candadian style socialized Health Care. Only the UK does. What is it about this you don't understand or do you have a definition of "socialism" that the rest of the world doesn't?

Apparently you do not understand my use of the word "or".

 

[DamnYankee]

Is he or is he going to repeat what Clinton did? Clinton came into office during a recesion, though nothing as severe as this. He also tried to reform health care and failed largely due to insurance company lobbying. What makes you think he won't do what Clinton did? If I remember correctly the right wing said the same thing about Clinton and then nominated a dinosaur like Dole (a good man but granted a dinosaur by then) to run against a man as dynamic as Clinton.

I can only think of two political leaders in the Republican party that has the centrist appeal to beat Obama and it will be a cold day in hell before the Republicans nominate Powell or Romney. Yet ya'll still have your self bullshited that a wing nut can beat Obama. You're nuts! It's not gonna happen.

Who ever the Republicans put forward will have to storm to the center to get elected or will fail spectacularly.

Your ignorance of history is shadowed by your lack of understanding of how the Party's win elections. The GOP does so by nominating a conservative candidate like Reagan, not a centrist like McCain. The 'Rats do so by nominating a Centrist, like they claimed Obama was.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Your ignorance of history is shadowed by your lack of understanding of how the Party's win elections. The GOP does so by nominating a conservative candidate like Reagan, not a centrist like McCain. The 'Rats do so by nominating a Centrist, like they claimed Obama was.

OIC, so Clinton's election and re-election and Obama's election were figments of my imagination. Sure.....and Reagan was a great President too.....almost as great as the Easter Bunny!

 

[DamnYankee]

OIC, so Clinton's election and re-election and Obama's election were figments of my imagination. Sure.....and Reagan was a great President too.....almost as great as the Easter Bunny!

No reason to go off the deep end just because you got smacked down by my post. Get a hold of yourself.

 

[Minister of Truth]

OIC, so Clinton's election and re-election and Obama's election were figments of my imagination. Sure.....and Reagan was a great President too.....almost as great as the Easter Bunny!

I don't recall if Clinton ran as a centrist (I was 6 and 10 when he ran for office), but I do know that he tended to govern as one (at least from 3 Jan 1995 on).

 

[Sammy Jankis]

We may want a safety net if they're gonna ship all the jobs overseas. Apparently they think doing that raises all boats so we won't need a safety net. But that's an obviously flawed paradigm. Look at reality. Globalization = economic destruction.

 

[TuTu Monroe]

If that's true then you have a conservative leaning SCOTUS to over turn it. So what are you afraid of?

I'm not afraid, I am angry we have so many corrupt, incompetent jerks in our government who have blatantly trashed our Constitution for decades..

 

[DamnYankee]

I don't recall if Clinton ran as a centrist (I was 6 and 10 when he ran for office), but I do know that he tended to govern as one (at least from 3 Jan 1995 on).

He ran as a centrist of course as all Democrats do, then tried to ram HillaryCare up our asses along with queers in the military, proving that he was really socially liberal. Fiscally he was smart enough to listen to Reagan's advisers and he was more or less centrist, although he did raise taxes on the upper income folk, a liberal standard.

 

[Damocles]

When they see it in action, we'll see that most of the people who "opposed" it actually did so mainly because of Republican lies about things that aren't actually in the bill - certainly more than the mere 10% or so needed to get majority support for it. If it is passed, it will be an immensely popular program. When crafting legislative policy, you can't blink and give up everytime a negative poll comes out.

And here's the thing. If the Democrats pass it, they'll be judged by what actually happens. If they don't, they'll be judged by Republican lies.

People have heard what is in it for more than a year, joint sessions of congress, two prime time speeches from one branch of the government, ads on TV promoting it, discussing it endlessly, they know what is in it and they are against it very strongly 2/3 of people polled want Congress to start over and come up with a better plan.

Lastly, people will be long taxed for it before they get to "see what they have", before they ever "see what they have" they will vote to unwind this POS bill.