Obama Getting Briefed on Afghanistan Operation

Onceler said:
Nah - reading the thread, you basically come across as saying that Obama's decision to oppose the surge was much worse than Bush's initial decision to invade.

And where did I say that Obama taking credit for the surge was "okay"?

Fail.
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Ridiculous. Obama's decision to declare defeat was simply wrong. His attempt to take credit for the benefit of what he opposed takes some huevos. He clearly used all the experience he had as a war leader to come up with this strategy, as it will be easy to refute using video of his own words, even better with Biden trying to claim some of it...

The reality of the situation is we were there, and he was utterly incorrect as to the result of the surge, his prediction of doom, and his declaration of defeat before its time.

He was flat wrong, and now claiming some of the success from it is actually quite funny. And I thought I was talking to Cypress, because that level of hacktacular ignorance of reality usually comes from there. Seriously. It's not going to be successful, it is way too easily refuted by simple video and Obama shouldn't have even tried...
 
"Disingenuous person who thinks that Obama taking credit for the one thing that Bush did right there is okay because invading was bad = You."

You said this in response to my post.

How is that directed at Cypress?

As for your assertions, Obama's opposition to the surge is not even a molehill compared to Bush's decision to invade. And it hardly rises to the level of the kind of foreign policy blunders & mistakes borne of inexperience that were being discussed.

The only reason you'd like the conclusion about it to be more broad & admin-defining is because you simply do not like Obama.
 
Onceler said:
"Disingenuous person who thinks that Obama taking credit for the one thing that Bush did right there is okay because invading was bad = You."

You said this in response to my post.

How is that directed at Cypress?

As for your assertions, Obama's opposition to the surge is not even a molehill compared to Bush's decision to invade. And it hardly rises to the level of the kind of foreign policy blunders & mistakes borne of inexperience that were being discussed.

The only reason you'd like the conclusion about it to be more broad & admin-defining is because you simply do not like Obama.
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Re-read... "I thought I was talking to Cypress..."

And the only reason I point out that he was flatly and overwhelmingly wrong about his prediction of defeat is because he was, it has nothing to do with whether I like Obama or not. Bush was equally wrong declaring "Mission Accomplished" too early, and both of these were based on foolish assertions by those with too little experience in warfare...
 
Damocles said:
Re-read... "I thought I was talking to Cypress..."

And the only reason I point out that he was flatly and overwhelmingly wrong about his prediction of defeat is because he was, it has nothing to do with whether I like Obama or not. Bush was equally wrong declaring "Mission Accomplished" too early, and both of these were based on foolish assertions by those with too little experience in warfare...
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There it is again - putting the decision to invade & the decision to oppose the surge on the same playing field.

It's weird.
 
Onceler said:
There it is again - putting the decision to invade & the decision to oppose the surge on the same playing field.

It's weird.
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"Mission Accomplished" is not the decision to invade. That is where you go into the arena of disingenuous manipulation of reality. The post you quoted did not do what you say here at all, it had nothing to do with the decision to invade, that is a flat disassociative misapplication of reality that is at the same level of disingenuous that was previously only seen from Cypress. Hence the earlier mistaken identity from me.
 
Damocles said:
"Mission Accomplished" is not the decision to invade. That is where you go into the arena of disingenuous manipulation of reality. The post you quoted did not do what you say here at all, it had nothing to do with the decision to invade, that is a flat disassociative misapplication of reality that is at the same level of disingenuous that was previously only seen from Cypress. Hence the earlier mistaken identity from me.
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You need to re-read your posts. You basically said that Bush redeemed himself w/ the surge.

It's very sad.
 
Onceler said:
You need to re-read your posts. You basically said that Bush redeemed himself w/ the surge.

It's very sad.
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I said it was one of the few things done right after the disastrous decision to invade. That doesn't "redeem" anything, it just was one of the few decisions he made that was right that actually went in the right direction to "fix" what we broke. If we had followed Obama's advice the situation would have been exponentially worse than it is today. Thankfully, we didn't. However now, we have no choice. I only hope he is as accidentally correct as Bush was.

Now what is sad is attempting to say, "Bush invaded, therefore Obama's attempt to take credit for the surge should be ignored."
 
bravo said:
And you don't think Donald Rumsfeld and Robert Gates,

General Peter Pace and Admiral "Mike" Mullen, etc. gave wise counsel to Bush?
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no. not all of them. I think Rummy's counsel regarding going into Iraq before even looking for AQ in Afghanistan was TERRIBLE advice and I think his advice about going in with a lean and mean force instead of an overpowering one like Shiniseki suggested was equally terrible. And clearly, Rummy was the one that had Bush's ear... and there were terrible consequences.
 
Damocles said:
Both were the work of the Bush Administration, not of Obama who had already declared defeat.

The reality is, had we provided enough boots for security from the beginning, the Iraq war would have lasted much shorter and cost us much less. Following advice from idiots like Rumsfeld extended the period of time that we spent there and multiplied the amount of treasure and lives lost.

The main reality is, had we followed what Obama wanted at the time of the surge the only option was actual defeat, thankfully Bush made one of his few good decisions concerning the occupation of Iraq and it was averted. All of it was against the strenuous objection and declaration of defeat from the current President who was then an inexperienced Senator.
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the sunni enlightenment was the work of the sunnis in Iraq. For you to give Bush credit for it means you really need to wipe the Bush jizz off the corner of your mouth.
 
Damocles said:
About as much as Bush. An inspector and observer, the other was a cargo handler (after he requested more difficult duties than he had previous to that)...

Bush was a fighter pilot in the National Guard...

LBJ did get a Star for flying a malfunctioning airplane away from combat once and returning with information...

Too bad neither of them had enough to actually make success from the mess of Viet Nam.
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Vietnam was a failure of our now completely discredited and unwarranted fears about dominoes. The fact remains that being a former military person is not a prerequisite for being a good commander in chief.
 
maineman said:
the sunni enlightenment was the work of the sunnis in Iraq. For you to give Bush credit for it means you really need to wipe the Bush jizz off the corner of your mouth.
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The enlightenment was directly attributable to the actions of diplomats under the direction of the administration at that time (some more directly attributable to the greenbacks we paid them). That you ignore success in the hopes that others will agree that Obama is just the bestest ever and somehow they wouldn't notice that he's claiming credit for what he said would only fail, means that reality doesn't get in the way of that thrill you and Chris Matthews get up your leg when you see a picture of Obama.

I also know that when you and AssHat start talking about Jizz it means you have lost the argument and are trying to distract from your lack of any intelligent addition to the thread and your fixation with it being in proximity to male mouths are a direct result of your further foray into the realm of fantasy.
 
Damocles said:
The enlightenment was directly attributable to the actions of diplomats under the direction of the administration at that time (some more directly attributable to the greenbacks we paid). That you ignore success in the hopes that others will agree that Obama is just the bestest ever, means that reality doesn't get in the way of that thrill you and Chris Matthews get up your leg when you see a picture of Obama.

I also know that when you and AssHat start talking about Jizz it means you have lost the argument and are trying to distract from our lack of any intelligent addition to the thread.
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the enlightenment was directly attributable to sunni civilian casualties at the hands of AQ. To try to give the BUsh team credit for that is just plain wrong....
 
maineman said:
the enlightenment was directly attributable to sunni civilian casualties at the hands of AQ. To try to give the BUsh team credit for that is just plain wrong....
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It is directly attributable to money paid to them and efforts of diplomats. That you try to dismiss their efforts only shows that you would dismiss the efforts of those who worked to get it done. It's amazing how this enlightenment immediately followed the money and effort we put into it and you would assume that they were somehow too stupid to notice all this killing happening in the intervening years...

Seriously, your "they suddenly realized they were being killed by Shi'a" is preposterous and simply ignores the direct efforts of diplomats working at the direction of the Bush Administration. You do this because you want to view everything that was done by Bush through poop colored glasses. Bush did almost everything wrong in Iraq, this was one of the few highlights. You really should read more than just Huffpo "experts"...
 
maineman said:
Vietnam was a failure of our now completely discredited and unwarranted fears about dominoes. The fact remains that being a former military person is not a prerequisite for being a good commander in chief.
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Vietnam was a failure; because decisions were made about what to do, by politicians, instead of letting the military do what it's been trained to do.
 
maineman said:
you are aware, I assume, that many presidents have had zero military experience and yet have been successful wartime presidents. Lincoln, Wilson and Roosevelt come quickly to mind. Do you not think that Gates and the JCS are providing wise counsel to Obama?
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Lincoln had combat experience as a militia captain. Wilson was so full of fail, I wouldn't count him leading us into WWI. But its true that FDR was our greatest wartime president of all-time, and he had no experience. Generally speaking, I point to FDR when people drag up the experience card.
 
yes, pale rider you are definitely a scurrilous syphilitic scrofulous toad without redeeming value

your condition is directly attributed to the fact that you were conceived when your mother copulated with a diseased goat
 
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