The Trinity

D

domer76

Verified User
This should be a good one for the Bible literalists to explain.

What is this Trinity thing? Is it polytheism or not? When did the NT authors come up with that concept and why? Wasn’t just a single god sufficient? What’s the need for three? Can’t one god handle all its responsibilities?

There are quite a few bizarre concepts in the Bible, but this one is near the top. May be number one!
 
domer76 said:
This should be a good one for the Bible literalists to explain.

What is this Trinity thing? Is it polytheism or not? When did the NT authors come up with that concept and why? Wasn’t just a single god sufficient? What’s the need for three? Can’t one god handle all its responsibilities?

There are quite a few bizarre concepts in the Bible, but this one is near the top. May be number one!
Click to expand...

It comes from Aristotle for whom god is thought thinking thought--three forms.
One god three parts: Father is the generative principle. Son is that which is created. Spirit is mediator.
 
BidenPresident said:
It comes from Aristotle for whom god is thought thinking thought--three forms.
One god three parts: Father is the generative principle. Son is that which is created. Spirit is mediator.
Click to expand...

The Trinity is not one god, three forms. It is 3 distinct entities. Aristotle was 3 centuries before the Christian god. And it’s not a philosophy, it’s a theology. It’s not an OT concept, either.
 
domer76 said:
The Trinity is not one god, three forms. It is 3 distinct entities. Aristotle was 3 centuries before the Christian god. And it’s not a philosophy, it’s a theology. It’s not an OT concept, either.
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St. Thomas Aquinas called Aristotle "The Philosopher" and based Christian theology on Aristotle.
 
BidenPresident said:
St. Thomas Aquinas called Aristotle "The Philosopher" and based Christian theology on Aristotle.
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It's moronic to say Aquinas "based Christianity on Aristotle". I know you struggle intellectually but even for you that's stupid. Christianity pre-existed Aquinas. You get that right?
 
domer76 said:
This should be a good one for the Bible literalists to explain.

What is this Trinity thing? Is it polytheism or not? When did the NT authors come up with that concept and why? Wasn’t just a single god sufficient? What’s the need for three? Can’t one god handle all its responsibilities?

There are quite a few bizarre concepts in the Bible, but this one is near the top. May be number one!
Click to expand...

There's plenty of excellent writings on the Trinity. I know you won't read them because this thread is about insulting not learning. If for some reason though your brain has a glitch and you might be interested in reading a brief but excellent explanation of the Trinity, you might try Theology And Sanity by Frank Sheed. It requires reading skills though.
 
domer76 said:
Perhaps, but neither Aquinas nor Aristotle were NT authors. Aristotle had no concept of Jesus, the Son.

So, my questions still stand.
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I think I gave a pretty good response. Christian theology does not claim there are three gods. So on that, you are just wrong.
 
Yakuda said:
There's plenty of excellent writings on the Trinity. I know you won't read them because this thread is about insulting not learning. If for some reason though your brain has a glitch and you might be interested in reading a brief but excellent explanation of the Trinity, you might try Theology And Sanity by Frank Sheed. It requires reading skills though.
Click to expand...

I’ve already read and heard dissertations on the subject. I’ve not heard or read anything that would convince a rational mind on that bizarre concept. It wasn’t an OT concept and doesn’t really appear, except as an add-on in John, in the NT.

What was the need for it? To try to explain some difficulties created by discrepancies or to fulfill an OT requirement?
 
BidenPresident said:
I think I gave a pretty good response. Christian theology does not claim there are three gods. So on that, you are just wrong.
Click to expand...

So, I must have been mistaken that the Trinity does not exist in Christian doctrine.

I wonder where I ever heard “The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Spirit)”. Is that a Muslim concept? Jewish? What?
 
domer76 said:
This should be a good one for the Bible literalists to explain.

What is this Trinity thing? Is it polytheism or not? When did the NT authors come up with that concept and why? Wasn’t just a single god sufficient? What’s the need for three? Can’t one god handle all its responsibilities?

There are quite a few bizarre concepts in the Bible, but this one is near the top. May be number one!
Click to expand...

As I understand it the Trinity is largely based on the Johannine Comma. If I'm recalling correctly Erasmus couldn't find the Johannine Comma in any early source manuscripts but the Catholic Church was quite helpful in providing him the necessary documents so he ended up including it in his translation of the Bible.
 
BidenPresident said:
Christian theology does not claim there are three gods.
Click to expand...

The Trinity appears to come from First Epistle of John 5:7-8 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

To my understanding this is the biblical support for the Trinity concept.
 
domer76 said:
This should be a good one for the Bible literalists to explain.

What is this Trinity thing? Is it polytheism or not? When did the NT authors come up with that concept and why? Wasn’t just a single god sufficient? What’s the need for three? Can’t one god handle all its responsibilities?

There are quite a few bizarre concepts in the Bible, but this one is near the top. May be number one!
Click to expand...

Obviously it cannot be explained scientifically or rationally. It's strictly mystical

I believe it was the doctrine adopted at the council of Niccea, and was a response to "heretical" Christian sects who emphasized Christ's humanity rather than his divinity.

I don't think it means three separate gods. I think it is supposed to be three different manifestations of the same God, similar to how one man can be a husband, a father, and a brother all at the same time.

I don't think the concept is particularly unique in world religions. The vast pantheon of Hindu deities are supposed to all be just different manifestations of the universal spirit Brahman
 
Yakuda said:
There's plenty of excellent writings on the Trinity. I know you won't read them because this thread is about insulting not learning. If for some reason though your brain has a glitch and you might be interested in reading a brief but excellent explanation of the Trinity, you might try Theology And Sanity by Frank Sheed. It requires reading skills though.
Click to expand...

I read part of his explanation for a bit this morning. Mostly word salad. Where makes his first mistake by claiming ‘God has revealed himself to us as three entities’ or something of the such.

No. God has not “revealed” himself to anybody. Moses claimed he did, but of course, that was OT with no evidence that Moses ever existed.

So, failure by Sheed on that level.
 
domer76 said:
This should be a good one for the Bible literalists to explain.

What is this Trinity thing? Is it polytheism or not? When did the NT authors come up with that concept and why? Wasn’t just a single god sufficient? What’s the need for three? Can’t one god handle all its responsibilities?

There are quite a few bizarre concepts in the Bible, but this one is near the top. May be number one!
Click to expand...

Are we knowledgeable about what hallucinatory drugs were readily available in biblical times?
 
Obtenebrator said:
The Trinity appears to come from First Epistle of John 5:7-8 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

To my understanding this is the biblical support for the Trinity concept.
Click to expand...

The sources I have seen is that section was not in the original transcript of John, but added much later. Maybe hundreds of years later. Plus, that’s the ONLY mention of the concept, found nowhere else.

Sounds like somebody needed a bandaid to fix something.
 
domer76 said:
The sources I have seen is that section was not in the original transcript of John, but added much later. Maybe hundreds of years later. Plus, that’s the ONLY mention of the concept, found nowhere else.

Sounds like somebody needed a bandaid to fix something.
Click to expand...

Hence my comment on Erasmus and his translation. He couldn't find it in the original manuscripts but the Catholic Church could and it wound up in Erasmus translation. Draw whatever conclusion you like from that.
 
Cypress said:
Obviously it cannot be explained scientifically or rationally. It's strictly mystical

I believe it was the doctrine adopted at the council of Niccea, and was a response to "heretical" Christian sects who emphasized Christ's humanity rather than his divinity.

I don't think it means three separate gods. I think it is supposed to be three different manifestations of the same God, similar to how one man can be a husband, a father, and a brother all at the same time.

I don't think the concept is particularly unique in world religions. The vast pantheon of Hindu deities are supposed to all be just different manifestations of the universal spirit Brahman
Click to expand...

No, I realize it’s one god, but three individual entities. That makes even less sense.

The analogy of a man being a husband, father and brother all at once was called modality. One god, three modes. Modality was shot down when a theologian pointed out the Crucifixion. You can’t kill that one god and have modality work.

So, they still needed three separate entities.
 
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