Why Do Republicans Hate Pay-As-You-Go?

NigelTufnel said:
Suuuuuuure, guy. Republicans hate pay-go. They hate it because they know that in the real world, there are two sides to a balanced budget equation, revenues and outlays. And increasing taxes is a non-starter for them. They don't care one whit about the deficit. They only care about cutting taxes. Period. End of story.
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It was REPUBLICANS that created PAYGO in 1990.

As Good Luck stated, this is a shell game for the politicians. They can pretend they are for "PAYGO" and shout it from the top of their lungs... but bottom line, they are hiding the costs in other programs. Just take a look at the Medicare cuts that were SUPPOSED to take place in the Balanced Budget act of 1997. What did Congress do? They found loop holes so that they could offset the costs with another bill (similar to what they want to do with their current health care bill to make IT deficit neutral). It is dishonest to pretend that either of the two parties actually want to reduce the deficit. This PAYGO bill is nothing more than a for/against vote for tax increases.

This legislation is a joke. You want to cut deficit spending, fine... I am all for that. Do it with SPENDING CUTS when you don't have the revenue... don't do it with a free reign of mandatory tax increases. There is massive waste in the government.... ask Obama... he found $500 billion in waste in Medicare, yet for some reason they cannot eliminate that waste without creating another money sucking federal entitlement program.

Take a look at the bogus claims by Dems that their health care plan will reduce the deficit spending. 100% BOGUS. Even the CBO stated that they are skeptical of that number because it relies on future Congress's to actually CUT spending... which we all know they won't do.

The Dems "Paygo" is every bit as misleading a title as the 'Employee free choice act'.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Why vote against the amendment, though? I understand why they might vote against the final bill but why vote against the amendment?

Your argument would make some sense if this wasn't a one-time thing. Here is a vote back in 2006 where the Republicans voted against the implementation of paygo:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00038

And the vast majority of House Republicans voted against paygo in 2007:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll009.xml

And when they controlled the House and Senate the Republicans abandoned paygo and turned and passed tax cuts and the prescription drug bill which could never have passed under paygo rules.

Republicans hate paygo.
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Wrong again hack. The DEMS controlled the Senate when Paygo expired.
 
asaratis said:
"Pay-As-You-Go" implies no deficit spending, does it not? With a family budget, that would mean no borrowing and no use of credit cards. In one breath Reid calls it "Pay-As-You-Go" and in the next calls for an increase in the debt cap.

What part of his trickery do you not understand?
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Well, pay-go is prospective. It applies to the FY 2011 budget that will be coming up in a short. Raising the debt ceiling was necessary to prevent a shutdown of the government in a few weeks based on past commitments.

There's no trickery. You just don't quite understand fully what you are talking about.

And that really doesn't explain why Republicans have completely abandoned paygo over the past 8 years.
 
Superfreak said:
Wrong again hack. The DEMS controlled the Senate when Paygo expired.
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Paygo expired at the end of 2002, after the November elections and before the new Republican controlled Congress was sworn in. I'm OK with you saying that it expired under while the Dems controlled the Senate. The fact of the matter is that the Republicans didn't re-implement it and have consistently voted against PAYGO:

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00038

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00053

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00283

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00340


EDIT: And by the way, I simply said that Republicans abandoned PAYGO, which is 100% true and indisputable.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Paygo expired at the end of 2002, after the November elections and before the new Republican controlled Congress was sworn in. I'm OK with you saying that it expired under while the Dems controlled the Senate. The fact of the matter is that the Republicans didn't re-implement it and have consistently voted against PAYGO:

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00038

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00053

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00283

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00340


EDIT: And by the way, I simply said that Republicans abandoned PAYGO, which is 100% true and indisputable.
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and AGAIN... what else was attached to each of those... it has already been pointed out what was attached to this one. I am not going to bother reading each of those as you continue to hide from the fact that the 'paygo' title is nothing more than a smoke screen. Just like the 'Employee free choice act'.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Well, pay-go is prospective. It applies to the FY 2011 budget that will be coming up in a short. Raising the debt ceiling was necessary to prevent a shutdown of the government in a few weeks based on past commitments.

There's no trickery. You just don't quite understand fully what you are talking about.

And that really doesn't explain why Republicans have completely abandoned paygo over the past 8 years.
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All of the above thread goes to explain that you insist on generalizations and broad-brush tags, that you deny the deceptive practices of the liberal movement AND that you are obtuse to reality.

The liberals in Congress today are just as bent toward socialism and Marxism as they have ever been...and the deceptions are necessary to the accomplishment of their goal because the American people really don't want their system. It has to be sugar coated and fed to non-thinking, brainwashed sheeple that have been trained to do nothing more than vote for the ruling elite and praise everything they do.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.
 
Superfreak said:
and AGAIN... what else was attached to each of those... it has already been pointed out what was attached to this one. I am not going to bother reading each of those as you continue to hide from the fact that the 'paygo' title is nothing more than a smoke screen. Just like the 'Employee free choice act'.
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This is precisely why your "deficit-hawk" schtick is total bullshit and you are nothing more the generic Republican that supports tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. You don't care one whit about the deficit, either. Just like the Republicans in Congress.

It would really help your cause if you could point to the Republicans supporting paygo while they controlled everything. But they didn't. So you can't. And you have to resort to this nonsense.
 
NigelTufnel said:
This is precisely why your "deficit-hawk" schtick is total bullshit and you are nothing more the generic Republican that supports tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. You don't care one whit about the deficit, either. Just like the Republicans in Congress.

It would really help your cause if you could point to the Republicans supporting paygo while they controlled everything. But they didn't. So you can't. And you have to resort to this nonsense.
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Again with more of your nonsense???

PAY ATTENTION MORON.... PAYGO is nothing more than a SMOKE SCREEN. That is it.

As I stated (and you ignored), I want to see the waste cut out of the government spending before I will sit back and accept tax increases. As I stated (and you ignored) Obama has identified $500 billion in waste in Medicare/Medicaid alone.... yet for some reason we cannot cut out this waste without the Dem health care bill being passed. Why is this Dung?

You are so eager to see tax increases that you blind yourself to the obvious way to reduce the deficit without having a detrimental impact on the economic growth of this country.

You do NOT raise taxes when you have spending you can cut. It is moronic.

Again, as stated (and once again ignored by YOU).... the current Paygo has attached to it the increase in the debt limit that the Republicans oppose. yet you pretend that it is just Paygo that they are opposing.

You are a complete hack.
 
Superfreak said:
Again with more of your nonsense???

PAY ATTENTION MORON.... PAYGO is nothing more than a SMOKE SCREEN. That is it.

As I stated (and you ignored), I want to see the waste cut out of the government spending before I will sit back and accept tax increases. As I stated (and you ignored) Obama has identified $500 billion in waste in Medicare/Medicaid alone.... yet for some reason we cannot cut out this waste without the Dem health care bill being passed. Why is this Dung?

You are so eager to see tax increases that you blind yourself to the obvious way to reduce the deficit without having a detrimental impact on the economic growth of this country.

You do NOT raise taxes when you have spending you can cut. It is moronic.

Again, as stated (and once again ignored by YOU).... the current Paygo has attached to it the increase in the debt limit that the Republicans oppose. yet you pretend that it is just Paygo that they are opposing.

You are a complete hack.
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Like I said, Republicans hate PAYGO and haven;t supported it in eight years notwithstanding that it worked in the 1990s to help control the deficit.

Oh, and on the Medicare issue have the fiscally responsible Republicans put together a bill to address that? Of course not.

And I'm not ignoring anything. What the amendment was attached to doesn't matter one whit. A vote on the amendment isn't a vote on the entirety of the bill. The current PAYGO was passed as a standalone amendment. The Republicans opposed the standalone amendment. If they supported PAYGO, they could have voted for it and voted against the final bill (like they did with the abortion amendments to the healthcare bill). But they don't support PAYGO so they voted against it.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Like I said, Republicans hate PAYGO and haven;t supported it in eight years notwithstanding that it worked in the 1990s to help control the deficit.
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Like I said, you have lost touch with reality.

Here's some more non-reality for you:

You posted last and therefore win!
 
NigelTufnel said:
Like I said, Republicans hate PAYGO and haven;t supported it in eight years notwithstanding that it worked in the 1990s to help control the deficit.

Oh, and on the Medicare issue have the fiscally responsible Republicans put together a bill to address that? Of course not.

And I'm not ignoring anything. What the amendment was attached to doesn't matter one whit. A vote on the amendment isn't a vote on the entirety of the bill. The current PAYGO was passed as a standalone amendment. The Republicans opposed the standalone amendment. If they supported PAYGO, they could have voted for it and voted against the final bill (like they did with the abortion amendments to the healthcare bill). But they don't support PAYGO so they voted against it.
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Yes, you are indeed ignoring the FACT that the bill RAISED the debt ceiling by 1.9 TRILLION DOLLARS. You pretend the Republicans were simply voting against 'paygo'.

You are completely full of shit. This is what was in the 'stand alone amendment' you fucking hack...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ne...mits_gov_t_to_borrow_an_additional__1_9t.html
 
Superfreak said:
Yes, you are indeed ignoring the FACT that the bill RAISED the debt ceiling by 1.9 TRILLION DOLLARS. You pretend the Republicans were simply voting against 'paygo'.

You are completely full of shit. This is what was in the 'stand alone amendment' you fucking hack...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ne...mits_gov_t_to_borrow_an_additional__1_9t.html
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The vote on the paygo amendment was not the vote on the debt ceiling bill. If Republicans supported paygo they could vote for the paygo amendment and vote against the bill raising the debt ceiling. Just like the Republicans voted in favor of the abortion amendment to the healthcare bill while voting against the healthcare bill itself. The two votes are mutually exclusive.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Seriously. I don't get it. Anyone have any idea? Today, the Senate passed pay-as-you-go rules by a 60-40 straight party line vote. What's the deal with that?

I thought they hate deficit spending.
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Because they view it as a proxy tax increase and an impediment to tax cuts. Many Republicans and Libertarians share an irrational attitude of "Starve the Beast" as an affective method of reducing goverment (We've seen where that attitude has gotten us). Paygo basically means that before a government program can be initiated or implemented it must be funded, either by cutting funding from other programs or by raising taxes. It's the later part that Republicans don't like. In addition, they don't like it because if they cut taxes they have to cut spending on popular programs to justify those tax cuts, which brings political odium in it's wake. So that's why Republicans oppose Paygo.

PayGo is an important measure for balancing the budget and governing affectively and I'm all for it.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Like I said, Republicans hate PAYGO and haven;t supported it in eight years notwithstanding that it worked in the 1990s to help control the deficit.

Oh, and on the Medicare issue have the fiscally responsible Republicans put together a bill to address that? Of course not.

And I'm not ignoring anything. What the amendment was attached to doesn't matter one whit. A vote on the amendment isn't a vote on the entirety of the bill. The current PAYGO was passed as a standalone amendment. The Republicans opposed the standalone amendment. If they supported PAYGO, they could have voted for it and voted against the final bill (like they did with the abortion amendments to the healthcare bill). But they don't support PAYGO so they voted against it.
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Gawd dung. You're embarrassing yourself. Knock it off! :eek::palm::eek:
 
NigelTufnel said:
The vote on the paygo amendment was not the vote on the debt ceiling bill. If Republicans supported paygo they could vote for the paygo amendment and vote against the bill raising the debt ceiling. Just like the Republicans voted in favor of the abortion amendment to the healthcare bill while voting against the healthcare bill itself. The two votes are mutually exclusive.
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it was laughable to put a "paygo" amendment on a bill raising the debt ceiling another 1.9 trillion.....now if they had called it the "PaygoPoser" amendment it might have made sense.....
 
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