The Triumphant Return of Libertarianism

Mottley has over time become Midcan for very different reasons.

Midcan is wrapped up in pure adherence to his ideology, while Mott somehow thinks he is being a "moderate" by rejecting the only viable political philosophy to bridge the gap between liberalism and conservatism.

Two different paths, same ignorant result. Very interesting.
 
Cypress said:
Outside of the tiny minority who are actually card-carrying members of the Libertarian party, I think Matt is saying, and he can correct me if I’m wrong, is that libertarian-leaning and libertarian-identifying voters overwhelming vote for Republicans and the GOP platform.

And, they overwhelmingly voted for Bush, although Kerry cut into Bush’s libertarian advantage in 2004.

It’s not a well guarded secret why they traditionally overwhelmingly vote republican. Taxes, property rights, and government social programs are first and foremost in the minds of most libertarian-leaning voters, when they are actually in the voting booth. Those issues are associated with the GOP. It’s self evident that the personal views of libertarians on liberal social issues pretty much take a back seat to taxes and spending when it comes time to actually cast a vote.
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Yes and no. My stating that libertarian leaning voters leaned more towards Bush and the Republicans is an aside to my main point. I'm criticizing Libertarians as a political party and political movement that has accomplished exactly squat. It's all rhetoric. What have they accomplished?
 
Adam Weinberg said:
Actually, that's closer to what I'm saying than what he is saying.

We can't be both an influential block of the GOP and independent conservative movement and also an insignificant group of outsiders to all things political. It's either one or the other.
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No. I wasn't refering to them being an influential block of the Republican party. Which is where Libertarians are most affective, though their influence is a big part of the Republican parties ineptitude in governance.

No. I'm speaking specifically of Libertarians as a political party and political movement that has accomplished very little. If anything.

Like I keep saying. Show me the Beef.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
No. I wasn't refering to them being an influential block of the Republican party. Which is where Libertarians are most affective, though their influence is a big part of the Republican parties ineptitude in governance.

No. I'm speaking specifically of Libertarians as a political party and political movement that has accomplished very little. If anything.

Like I keep saying. Show me the Beef.
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I think it's a great thing for the libertarians to split from the neocon party. Then the teabaggers can split too. We'll have 3 conservative parties. Then we can get this country back on track.
 
Crashk said:
Libertarians are NOT moderates. They are farther right than the neocons and their teabagger toadies.
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You're right that libertarians are not moderates in themselves and are more right economically than the Neo-Cons. But we're also not authoritarian or hawkish like they are, so we're certainly more palatable to people who are moderates themselves.

I'm not sure how the tea parties are carrying water for the neo-cons. With only a few exceptions, the tea parties are against establishment Republicans, who for a long time were heavily influenced by the Neo-Conservatives despite their small numbers.
 
There are many people on here that can say this better than I but my answer to Mott saying where's the beef to Libertarianism would be the America. We were a country founded on individual liberty and we have a market based econony that has made us the world's economic powerhouse. Those are basic libertarian tenets.

That's a very general answer but one I believe is spot on.
 
Crashk said:
Libertarians are NOT moderates. They are farther right than the neocons and their teabagger toadies.
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Yeah, believing in peace and examples of not wanting to go into Iraq and even calling for us to pull out of Afghanistan which makes libertarians more to the left of Obama somehow equals being right of neo-cons to you? Do yourself a favor and get educated on basic libertarian beliefs.
 
Adam Weinberg said:
You're right that libertarians are not moderates in themselves and are more right economically than the Neo-Cons. But we're also not authoritarian or hawkish like they are, so we're certainly more palatable to people who are moderates themselves.

I'm not sure how the tea parties are carrying water for the neo-cons. With only a few exceptions, the tea parties are against establishment Republicans, who for a long time were heavily influenced by the Neo-Conservatives despite their small numbers.
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This is more bullshit. The first libertarian to pound his fist and want to kick somebody's ass, you guy will line up just like you did for Iraq. We've seen it before.

Teabaggers imo are people who are scared and frustrated with the current system. Mainly working people who have felt the crunch. I don't blame them for being pissed but they have to realize the republican party is going to do nothing for them.
 
Crashk said:
This is more bullshit. The first libertarian to pound his fist and want to kick somebody's ass, you guy will line up just like you did for Iraq. We've seen it before.
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Excuse me, but libertarians were against Iraq much longer before it was cool, and when Democrats were still voting for it before they voted against it.

Considering the entire libertarian movement staked its fledgling reputation with the country as an anti-war movement in a very, very, pro-war party, I find that statement of yours unlikely.

Anyway, I think all I'd like to express to the naysayers who have gone on for all this time that the libertarians will never get anywhere is this:

We're arrived. We actually have influence with the American public now. You've lost the debate about our legitimacy and credibility. Our leaders and thinkers are sought after in the discussion in this country, and I'm not just talking about the internet anymore. Get used to it.
 
Crashk said:
This is more bullshit. The first libertarian to pound his fist and want to kick somebody's ass, you guy will line up just like you did for Iraq. We've seen it before.

Teabaggers imo are people who are scared and frustrated with the current system. Mainly working people who have felt the crunch. I don't blame them for being pissed but they have to realize the republican party is going to do nothing for them.
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As opposed to the teabagees, who created the mess.
 
Adam Weinberg said:
Excuse me, but libertarians were against Iraq much longer before it was cool, and when Democrats were still voting for it before they voted against it.

Considering the entire libertarian movement staked its fledgling reputation with the country as an anti-war movement in a very, very, pro-war party, I find that statement of yours unlikely.

Anyway, I think all I'd like to express to the naysayers who have gone on for all this time that the libertarians will never get anywhere is this:

We're arrived. We actually have influence with the American public now. You've lost the debate about our legitimacy and credibility. Our leaders and thinkers are sought after in the discussion in this country, and I'm not just talking about the internet anymore. Get used to it.
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Well said.
 
Adam Weinberg said:
Excuse me, but libertarians were against Iraq much longer before it was cool, and when Democrats were still voting for it before they voted against it.

Considering the entire libertarian movement staked its fledgling reputation with the country as an anti-war movement in a very, very, pro-war party, I find that statement of yours unlikely.

Anyway, I think all I'd like to express to the naysayers who have gone on for all this time that the libertarians will never get anywhere is this:

We're arrived. We actually have influence with the American public now. You've lost the debate about our legitimacy and credibility. Our leaders and thinkers are sought after in the discussion in this country, and I'm not just talking about the internet anymore. Get used to it.
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Hooah!
 
Adam Weinberg said:
Excuse me, but libertarians were against Iraq much longer before it was cool, and when Democrats were still voting for it before they voted against it.

Considering the entire libertarian movement staked its fledgling reputation with the country as an anti-war movement in a very, very, pro-war party, I find that statement of yours unlikely.

Anyway, I think all I'd like to express to the naysayers who have gone on for all this time that the libertarians will never get anywhere is this:

We're arrived. We actually have influence with the American public now. You've lost the debate about our legitimacy and credibility. Our leaders and thinkers are sought after in the discussion in this country, and I'm not just talking about the internet anymore. Get used to it.
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Well said!!
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I'm not anti Libertarian. I'm just plain skeptical as hell about them Adam. I mean for christ sakes, "SHOW ME THE BEEF". George W. Bush is, with out a doubt, the US President most reflective and sympathetic to libertarian ideology and values in US history and we all saw first hand where that got us.
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WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? Bush? Really? The guy with out of control spending and nation builder the closest in values to libertarian ideology in US history? C'mon.. you can't be serious...
 
DigitalDave said:
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? Bush? Really? The guy with out of control spending and nation builder the closest in values to libertarian ideology in US history? C'mon.. you can't be serious...
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My guess is he thinks that he can convince the uneducated to believe that and thus end all chances for any libertarian ideas to be taken seriously. I just don't believe that Mott is that stupid.
 
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