Those who cheer on the Zionists collectively punishing the Palestinians for the crimes of HAMAS...WHICH THE ZIONISTS CREATED....should be aware that the HAN fully intend to collectively punish the American people far into the future for the various crimes of the American empire.
Reminder: Palestinians are not Hamas
- Thread starter BartenderElite
- Start date
ExpressLane
Verified User
Me :I care about lives on both sides but I'm unwilling to sacrifice Israeli innocent lives in the future (time after time after time)to save innocent Palestinians now. And I see additional possible benefits of removing the Palestinians' Hamas overlords. But realistically they will probably be replaced by someone just as bad. BTW a lot people that want Israel to pressforward even at the cost of Palestinian lives are Democrats. So it is inflammatory and disingenuous to blame it entirely on Right.
tigerred59
Verified User
LOL....listen, if all blacks have to carry the burden of out of control negro's, so must the Pally's, if your dealing with America.....we don't know how to seperate muslims and negro''s...and yes, it doesn't make it right
serendipity
Verified User
As always Dumbcunt69 only gives you part of the picture.
Six weeks before these elections, Dennis Ross was on one of his frequent trips to the Middle East. As the Middle East envoy for Presidents Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush, Ross had more experience negotiating with Israelis and Palestinians than any American. He was no longer in the U.S. government, but he knew all the relevant players.
Ross was leery about holding elections. He thought that if there were elections, militias such as Hamas should be banned from participating; they should have to choose between joining the system and waging violence against it—they shouldn’t be allowed to have it both ways.
Members of Fatah, fearful that Hamas might win, approached Ross and asked if he could quietly urge the Israelis to block the election. An odd alignment was taking shape. “What’s wrong with this picture?” Ross asked himself. Fatah and Israel were against holding the elections; Hamas and President Bush were in favor.
Ross communicated all this to Robert Zoellick, a former colleague from Bush Sr.’s days who was now deputy secretary of state. Like Ross, Zoellick worried the election could be disastrous. He urged his boss, Bush Jr.’s secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, to urge Israelis to do some things to improve Fatah’s prospects—for instance, to ease up on border crossings in the Palestinian territories and let Abbas take credit for the gesture.
Rice refused, saying that the U.S. shouldn’t put its thumb on the scales. A former hardheaded adherent of realpolitik, Rice had recently adopted Bush’s view of the world: She thought, or at least acted as if, elections were a magic potion for curing political ills and that the U.S., having delivered or blessed them, should sit back and let the historical forces flow naturally.
To her (and most American observers’) surprise, Hamas won. It proved to be only the first yank in the unraveling of the Bush-Rice dogma. Civil war broke out between Hamas and Fatah, leading eventually to Fatah’s expulsion from Gaza, Hamas’ total dictatorship there, and a resumption of rocket fire from the enclave into Israel—prompting the Israeli blockade on Gaza’s northern border (which Egypt, whose leaders hated and feared Hamas as well, reinforced with a blockade on the southern border). At the same time, Hezbollah rained missiles down on Israel from southern Lebanon, prompting a war—which could reignite soon.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html
serendipity
Verified User
Yes and it was for the most part land that no Muslim wanted. The Israeli's drained the land and made it fertile, not that Dumbcunt69 would ever acknowledge that.
Let’s repeat, dicksuck.
Hamas garnered 45% of the vote and did not carry the majority in a single Gaza district.
serendipity
Verified User
So what? Hamas took control and starting defenestrating PA personnel, understand or not?
Last edited:
They sure did successfully learn the lessons that Osama Bin Laden left for enemies of the West...which is now circling the drain.
Port Tack
Verified User
Israel told everyone in Gaza to proceed south below a line in which they would not be obliterated. That line is only a matter of a few miles and any Palestinian could have walked it by now. If they are still in the city of Gaza they have no one to blame but themselves.
Port Tack
Verified User
Lots of white lib college students are Hamas.
You are full of shit.
serendipity
Verified User
Why the far left supports Hamas
29 October 2023, 7:51am
It’s not often that Brits can say that the US is behind the UK. But in understanding the dynamic between the successors to the old socialist left and radical Islam, US thinkers have years of catching up to do. It is not as if American commentators are wrong or uninteresting, it is just that, unlike their counterparts in Europe, they have not begun to come to terms with the Islamisation of the worst strains of left-wing politics, and the wider consequences for the progressive cause.
Moderates in the US were pushed into taking a stand after the glorification of murder at a demonstration organised by the New York chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America on 8 October. Mark that date.
It is not just sinister and stupid far-left sects who are caught in a conflict of principles
I hope when historians look back on these times they will notice that in the US and across Europe, the white far left and radical Islamists were attending rallies celebrating the attack on Israel. No Israeli retaliation had taken place on 8 October. The blood of the dead was not even dry. Demonstrators were not protesting against an Israeli assault on Gaza city but in favour of the murder of Jewish civilians.
Among Hamas’s victims were 260 visitors to a music festival. Hamas terrorists arrived on hang gliders and gunned them down. You can watch a video of one of the speakers in New York celebrating the executions.
And you might have seen, there was some sort of rave or desert party where they were having a great time, until the resistance came in electrified hang gliders and took at least several dozen hipsters.
The audience whooped and cheered as the speaker described how the Jews had got what was coming to them.
The rage spread to US campuses. Jews at Cooper Union college in Manhattan had to hide from a mob chanting ‘globalise the intifada’. A Cornell University professor called the Hamas attacks ‘exhilarating’ and ‘energising’. A Yale professor dubbed Israel a ‘murderous, genocidal settler state.’
None of the American socialists or academics seemed to know or care that Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic jihad are ultra reactionary theocratic movements that are against everything the Western left believes in, or pretends to believe in. Indeed, after Hamas’s patrons in Tehran took power in the Shia revolution of 1979, they killed Iranian socialists. Today they are arresting and killing Iranian feminists.
So, the Hamas attack provided plenty for decent US progressives to worry about. Before talking about their failures of understanding, let me talk about what they are getting right. Noah Smith, whose Noahpinion Substack is well worth reading, made a lot of sense when he wrote that the far-left does not have many causes it can call its own after the deaths of socialism and communism.
The most imperialist country in the world is Russia, but the far left cannot oppose it because Putin is anti-western, and that is all that matters to them. Most people think that climate change won’t bring a radical reordering of society – ‘we’re just going to build some solar panels and electric cars and stuff,’ as Smith puts it. There doesn’t seem much mileage in shouting about neo-liberalism given that it died in the 2008 crash.
In these circumstances, the Palestinian cause offers a way out of end-of-history ennui. Israel could be described as a colonial state, albeit one founded by refugees fleeing fascism. The struggle against it appeared to fit a classic pattern.
And, as Smith nicely emphasises, by supporting Hamas, the far left could draw a dividing line between itself and the rest of the US progressive movement. A useful tactic because, if you are running a political or religious sect, you need your members to believe in something that most people will regard as insane: supporting the mass murder of Israeli teenagers, hailing your church’s leader as God’s chosen, insisting that Joe Biden stole the election from Donald Trump.
Sect members not only prove their loyalty to their leaders. Crucially, they cut themselves off from friends, family and acquaintances. In normal circumstances they might moderate a potential fanatic’s thinking. They might point out that the slogan ‘from the river to sea’ means the ethnic cleansing of every Jew living between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean, as Hamas has just proved in the most brutal fashion imaginable.
Western leftists began to lean ever harder into the Palestinian cause, making it ever more central to their view of geopolitics, Smith wrote. ‘While everyone else was arguing about the Ukraine war, tensions with China, genocide in Myanmar, or whatever, for Western leftists it often seems like it’s all Palestine, all day long.’
The radical Islamist movement, which was powered by the Iranian revolution, is visibly dying
But to leave it, as Smith does, with the ugliness of far-left groups is to make the mistake progressive British politicians made in the early 2000s when I and others tried to warn of the dangers of new currents on the left. ‘It’s just the communists and the Trots,’ they said to me. ‘They don’t matter.’
They promptly proved that they did by taking over the Labour party. I am not saying the same could happen to US Democrats today – autres temps, autre mœurs – simply that the British example shows that indulging radical Islam is no barrier to advancement on the left. Understanding why takes you to the heart, not just of the left and its discontents, but of the Palestinian tragedy.
To begin with, ask yourselves why the far left is on the side of organisations they would have no trouble identifying as fascistic if they were run by whites. It’s because nowhere in the world are there Marxists like them fighting oppression in armed rebellion. In Africa, South America and Asia, let alone in its European homeland, Marxism has lost the power to inspire men to kill and be killed. Radical Islamists will fight and kill. And if you close your eyes and learn to love the horseshoe theory they can seem like the descendants of 20th century revolutionaries.
In the UK and France nearly all the far left groups have been thoroughly Islamised. They have allied with exiled Muslim Brotherhood leaders, and contrary to Noah Smith’s argument, do not concern themselves only with Palestine. In the UK, the far left portion of the Labour party was led by Jeremy Corbyn, who had made appearances on the Iranian propaganda channel Press TV, and indulged Vladimir Putin.
You can mock and denounce the far left as much as you like, and I have done my fair share of both. But the connection to ultra-reactionary regimes and movements did not bother Labour party members who voted for Corbyn to be their leader – twice!
You can blame Labour members as loudly as you like, and I have done my fair share of that too. But the fact remains that, if you want to support the Palestinian cause, you have to accept at some level that the most dynamic anti-Zionist force is Hamas, not one of the dying secular and socialist parties. Then you have work out how to deal with that uncomfortable fact.
It is not, therefore, just sinister and stupid far-left sects who are caught in a conflict of principles. Unless they are very careful, many progressives will find themselves turning a blind eye to the victims of Hamas crimes against humanity. A recent example of this were Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and 2,000 other artists who signed a petition condemning Israel that did not even mention the slaughter by Hamas that started the war.
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The far left copes with radical Islam by celebrating Hamas. At times it seems many progressive people cope with radical Islam by pretending it does not exist. They cannot look at the Hamas founding charter and see its Nazi-era conspiracy theories about Jews or examine how it enforces a reactionary dictatorship on the people of Gaza. They just talk as if it is not there.
Writing in 2008, the ex-Marxist Christopher Hitchens said that: ‘The most depressing and wretched spectacle of the past decade, for all those who care about democracy and secularism, has been the degeneration of Palestinian Arab nationalism into the theocratic and thanatocratic hell of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, where the website of Gaza’s ruling faction blazons an endorsement of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.’
That Hamas dominance suits the Israeli right is the best reason for deploring all on the Western left who cheer it on or pass over its crimes with silence. Throughout his time in power Benjamin Nethanayu has propped up Hamas in Gaza, while doing all he can to weaken the Palestinian authority on the West Bank.
That policy has misfired spectacularly and its failure should finish the old brute off. But you can see its logic. When anyone said that Israel must make peace, he needed only to point to Hamas and the theocratic hell it had created and ask how anyone could be expected to make peace with that! And, after this month’s massacres many in the West will agree. Hamas destroys the Palestinian cause as it claims to uphold it.
I am not going to offer false comfort in these terrible times. I will just say that the radical Islamist movement, which was powered by the Iranian revolution, is visibly dying. The Iranian regime is detested by its subject people. All status quos seem impregnable until the moment they fall apart. Perhaps the day is coming when Palestinians will be represented by people you need not recoil from in disgust.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-the-far-left-supports-hamas/
29 October 2023, 7:51am
It’s not often that Brits can say that the US is behind the UK. But in understanding the dynamic between the successors to the old socialist left and radical Islam, US thinkers have years of catching up to do. It is not as if American commentators are wrong or uninteresting, it is just that, unlike their counterparts in Europe, they have not begun to come to terms with the Islamisation of the worst strains of left-wing politics, and the wider consequences for the progressive cause.
Moderates in the US were pushed into taking a stand after the glorification of murder at a demonstration organised by the New York chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America on 8 October. Mark that date.
It is not just sinister and stupid far-left sects who are caught in a conflict of principles
I hope when historians look back on these times they will notice that in the US and across Europe, the white far left and radical Islamists were attending rallies celebrating the attack on Israel. No Israeli retaliation had taken place on 8 October. The blood of the dead was not even dry. Demonstrators were not protesting against an Israeli assault on Gaza city but in favour of the murder of Jewish civilians.
Among Hamas’s victims were 260 visitors to a music festival. Hamas terrorists arrived on hang gliders and gunned them down. You can watch a video of one of the speakers in New York celebrating the executions.
And you might have seen, there was some sort of rave or desert party where they were having a great time, until the resistance came in electrified hang gliders and took at least several dozen hipsters.
The audience whooped and cheered as the speaker described how the Jews had got what was coming to them.
The rage spread to US campuses. Jews at Cooper Union college in Manhattan had to hide from a mob chanting ‘globalise the intifada’. A Cornell University professor called the Hamas attacks ‘exhilarating’ and ‘energising’. A Yale professor dubbed Israel a ‘murderous, genocidal settler state.’
None of the American socialists or academics seemed to know or care that Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic jihad are ultra reactionary theocratic movements that are against everything the Western left believes in, or pretends to believe in. Indeed, after Hamas’s patrons in Tehran took power in the Shia revolution of 1979, they killed Iranian socialists. Today they are arresting and killing Iranian feminists.
So, the Hamas attack provided plenty for decent US progressives to worry about. Before talking about their failures of understanding, let me talk about what they are getting right. Noah Smith, whose Noahpinion Substack is well worth reading, made a lot of sense when he wrote that the far-left does not have many causes it can call its own after the deaths of socialism and communism.
The most imperialist country in the world is Russia, but the far left cannot oppose it because Putin is anti-western, and that is all that matters to them. Most people think that climate change won’t bring a radical reordering of society – ‘we’re just going to build some solar panels and electric cars and stuff,’ as Smith puts it. There doesn’t seem much mileage in shouting about neo-liberalism given that it died in the 2008 crash.
In these circumstances, the Palestinian cause offers a way out of end-of-history ennui. Israel could be described as a colonial state, albeit one founded by refugees fleeing fascism. The struggle against it appeared to fit a classic pattern.
And, as Smith nicely emphasises, by supporting Hamas, the far left could draw a dividing line between itself and the rest of the US progressive movement. A useful tactic because, if you are running a political or religious sect, you need your members to believe in something that most people will regard as insane: supporting the mass murder of Israeli teenagers, hailing your church’s leader as God’s chosen, insisting that Joe Biden stole the election from Donald Trump.
Sect members not only prove their loyalty to their leaders. Crucially, they cut themselves off from friends, family and acquaintances. In normal circumstances they might moderate a potential fanatic’s thinking. They might point out that the slogan ‘from the river to sea’ means the ethnic cleansing of every Jew living between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean, as Hamas has just proved in the most brutal fashion imaginable.
Western leftists began to lean ever harder into the Palestinian cause, making it ever more central to their view of geopolitics, Smith wrote. ‘While everyone else was arguing about the Ukraine war, tensions with China, genocide in Myanmar, or whatever, for Western leftists it often seems like it’s all Palestine, all day long.’
The radical Islamist movement, which was powered by the Iranian revolution, is visibly dying
But to leave it, as Smith does, with the ugliness of far-left groups is to make the mistake progressive British politicians made in the early 2000s when I and others tried to warn of the dangers of new currents on the left. ‘It’s just the communists and the Trots,’ they said to me. ‘They don’t matter.’
They promptly proved that they did by taking over the Labour party. I am not saying the same could happen to US Democrats today – autres temps, autre mœurs – simply that the British example shows that indulging radical Islam is no barrier to advancement on the left. Understanding why takes you to the heart, not just of the left and its discontents, but of the Palestinian tragedy.
To begin with, ask yourselves why the far left is on the side of organisations they would have no trouble identifying as fascistic if they were run by whites. It’s because nowhere in the world are there Marxists like them fighting oppression in armed rebellion. In Africa, South America and Asia, let alone in its European homeland, Marxism has lost the power to inspire men to kill and be killed. Radical Islamists will fight and kill. And if you close your eyes and learn to love the horseshoe theory they can seem like the descendants of 20th century revolutionaries.
In the UK and France nearly all the far left groups have been thoroughly Islamised. They have allied with exiled Muslim Brotherhood leaders, and contrary to Noah Smith’s argument, do not concern themselves only with Palestine. In the UK, the far left portion of the Labour party was led by Jeremy Corbyn, who had made appearances on the Iranian propaganda channel Press TV, and indulged Vladimir Putin.
You can mock and denounce the far left as much as you like, and I have done my fair share of both. But the connection to ultra-reactionary regimes and movements did not bother Labour party members who voted for Corbyn to be their leader – twice!
You can blame Labour members as loudly as you like, and I have done my fair share of that too. But the fact remains that, if you want to support the Palestinian cause, you have to accept at some level that the most dynamic anti-Zionist force is Hamas, not one of the dying secular and socialist parties. Then you have work out how to deal with that uncomfortable fact.
It is not, therefore, just sinister and stupid far-left sects who are caught in a conflict of principles. Unless they are very careful, many progressives will find themselves turning a blind eye to the victims of Hamas crimes against humanity. A recent example of this were Tilda Swinton, Steve Coogan, Charles Dance and 2,000 other artists who signed a petition condemning Israel that did not even mention the slaughter by Hamas that started the war.
Unlock unlimited access, free for a month
then subscribe from as little as £1 a week after that
SUBSCRIBE
The far left copes with radical Islam by celebrating Hamas. At times it seems many progressive people cope with radical Islam by pretending it does not exist. They cannot look at the Hamas founding charter and see its Nazi-era conspiracy theories about Jews or examine how it enforces a reactionary dictatorship on the people of Gaza. They just talk as if it is not there.
Writing in 2008, the ex-Marxist Christopher Hitchens said that: ‘The most depressing and wretched spectacle of the past decade, for all those who care about democracy and secularism, has been the degeneration of Palestinian Arab nationalism into the theocratic and thanatocratic hell of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, where the website of Gaza’s ruling faction blazons an endorsement of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.’
That Hamas dominance suits the Israeli right is the best reason for deploring all on the Western left who cheer it on or pass over its crimes with silence. Throughout his time in power Benjamin Nethanayu has propped up Hamas in Gaza, while doing all he can to weaken the Palestinian authority on the West Bank.
That policy has misfired spectacularly and its failure should finish the old brute off. But you can see its logic. When anyone said that Israel must make peace, he needed only to point to Hamas and the theocratic hell it had created and ask how anyone could be expected to make peace with that! And, after this month’s massacres many in the West will agree. Hamas destroys the Palestinian cause as it claims to uphold it.
I am not going to offer false comfort in these terrible times. I will just say that the radical Islamist movement, which was powered by the Iranian revolution, is visibly dying. The Iranian regime is detested by its subject people. All status quos seem impregnable until the moment they fall apart. Perhaps the day is coming when Palestinians will be represented by people you need not recoil from in disgust.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-the-far-left-supports-hamas/
Port Tack
Verified User
So, just what price should HAMAS or the Palestinians who supported them pay for invading and massacring 1000 innocent Israeli's? Entire families gunned down while sleeping, the heads cut off people and drug around like their victory trophies. I guess Israel should just try and treat them nicer and maybe they won't do that again? I support Israel flattening the entire city and bulldozing every last structure into the Med. That is the only way they can prevent this from happening again in 8-10 years.
Port Tack
Verified User
The public in GAZA put HAMAS in control, damn few are innocent.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
groan me again, worthless bitch......you post and deny what we can all read.......you can't get more idiotic than that......
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
you back up my claims.....why duplicate the effort....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
is that if you add in non-voters?.....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
and yet there were 7000 Hamas supporters on the Brooklyn Bridge......
BartenderElite
Verified User
How is this relevant to this thread?
Yakuda
Verified User
This is relevant to what? Hamas represents Palestinians. Hamas uses innocent Palestinians as shields. Israel isn't the problem.