UAW 'vs' EVs

cawacko

Well-known member
I acknowledge up front not being a car person. It's just not something I'm all that knowledgeable or passionate about. Nor am I a union person. I've never been in a union nor can I speak to their true inter-workings. That being said, I found this Odd Lots Podcast with Steven Rattner quite interesting/insightful. Rattner is a Democrat who Obama appointed as the 'car czar' during the auto bailouts of the late aughts. Rattner is clearly a smart guy and almost caught me off guard that he spoke here not as an ideologue or a partisan but just as someone who has been on the front lines and understands all sides of the issue.

Here's my question (and my apologies if this topic has already been discussed). He referenced the negotiation points of the UAW and not that they are in total conflict with EVs but they also aren't fully seeing eye-to-eye in the sense that EVs tend to use less labor, which isn't exactly ideal from a union perspective. Is that the case? (He referenced a company like Tesla being non-unionized and having advantages as a result when competing against the traditional automakers.)

He also broke down the UAW demands and what he felt were reasonable asks and 'crazy' asks, which was insightful. For anyone so inclined here's the link to the podcast.


When the US auto industry needed a restructuring or bailout in 2009, the Obama administration tapped former banker and investor Steven Rattner to lead the effort. As the government's "car czar," he helped shape an agreement that saw the United Auto Workers accept significant concessions in order to preserve the financial stability of the big three American carmakers. Now the UAW is on strike, with an aim of reversing many of those concessions and gaining new benefits for their workers. So what can the UAW reasonably accomplish? How plausible are their asks? And can US industry remain competitive with higher labor costs? On this episode of Odd Lots, we speak with Rattner to get his take on the negotiations, the challenge of the energy transition on the incumbent automakers, and the goals of Bidenomics more broadly, as the administration seeks to boost domestic manufacturing in areas like EVs, batteries, and semiconductors.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...e-uaw-strike-and/id1056200096?i=1000628747870
 
I acknowledge up front not being a car person. It's just not something I'm all that knowledgeable or passionate about. Nor am I a union person. I've never been in a union nor can I speak to their true inter-workings. That being said, I found this Odd Lots Podcast with Steven Rattner quite interesting/insightful. Rattner is a Democrat who Obama appointed as the 'car czar' during the auto bailouts of the late aughts. Rattner is clearly a smart guy and almost caught me off guard that he spoke here not as an ideologue or a partisan but just as someone who has been on the front lines and understands all sides of the issue.

Here's my question (and my apologies if this topic has already been discussed). He referenced the negotiation points of the UAW and not that they are in total conflict with EVs but they also aren't fully seeing eye-to-eye in the sense that EVs tend to use less labor, which isn't exactly ideal from a union perspective. Is that the case? (He referenced a company like Tesla being non-unionized and having advantages as a result when competing against the traditional automakers.)

He also broke down the UAW demands and what he felt were reasonable asks and 'crazy' asks, which was insightful. For anyone so inclined here's the link to the podcast.


When the US auto industry needed a restructuring or bailout in 2009, the Obama administration tapped former banker and investor Steven Rattner to lead the effort. As the government's "car czar," he helped shape an agreement that saw the United Auto Workers accept significant concessions in order to preserve the financial stability of the big three American carmakers. Now the UAW is on strike, with an aim of reversing many of those concessions and gaining new benefits for their workers. So what can the UAW reasonably accomplish? How plausible are their asks? And can US industry remain competitive with higher labor costs? On this episode of Odd Lots, we speak with Rattner to get his take on the negotiations, the challenge of the energy transition on the incumbent automakers, and the goals of Bidenomics more broadly, as the administration seeks to boost domestic manufacturing in areas like EVs, batteries, and semiconductors.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...e-uaw-strike-and/id1056200096?i=1000628747870

This forum's EV "expert" Joey wet panties, tells us hourly that EV's have no moving parts, never catch fire, and NEVER require any maintenance. You do the math for firefighters and those poor folk in any part of the auto industry.
 
I acknowledge up front not being a car person. It's just not something I'm all that knowledgeable or passionate about. Nor am I a union person. I've never been in a union nor can I speak to their true inter-workings. That being said, I found this Odd Lots Podcast with Steven Rattner quite interesting/insightful. Rattner is a Democrat who Obama appointed as the 'car czar' during the auto bailouts of the late aughts. Rattner is clearly a smart guy and almost caught me off guard that he spoke here not as an ideologue or a partisan but just as someone who has been on the front lines and understands all sides of the issue.

Here's my question (and my apologies if this topic has already been discussed). He referenced the negotiation points of the UAW and not that they are in total conflict with EVs but they also aren't fully seeing eye-to-eye in the sense that EVs tend to use less labor, which isn't exactly ideal from a union perspective. Is that the case? (He referenced a company like Tesla being non-unionized and having advantages as a result when competing against the traditional automakers.)

He also broke down the UAW demands and what he felt were reasonable asks and 'crazy' asks, which was insightful. For anyone so inclined here's the link to the podcast.


When the US auto industry needed a restructuring or bailout in 2009, the Obama administration tapped former banker and investor Steven Rattner to lead the effort. As the government's "car czar," he helped shape an agreement that saw the United Auto Workers accept significant concessions in order to preserve the financial stability of the big three American carmakers. Now the UAW is on strike, with an aim of reversing many of those concessions and gaining new benefits for their workers. So what can the UAW reasonably accomplish? How plausible are their asks? And can US industry remain competitive with higher labor costs? On this episode of Odd Lots, we speak with Rattner to get his take on the negotiations, the challenge of the energy transition on the incumbent automakers, and the goals of Bidenomics more broadly, as the administration seeks to boost domestic manufacturing in areas like EVs, batteries, and semiconductors.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...e-uaw-strike-and/id1056200096?i=1000628747870

Easy, expand Union to the EV factories and producers and if you need less labor, so be it. Employment in one particular industry cannot stand in the way of progress. Retrain those you do not need into other jobs.

They make the same argument about coal, but we cant stay in the dark ages simply to keep people employed.
 
This forum's EV "expert" Joey wet panties, tells us hourly that EV's have no moving parts, never catch fire, and NEVER require any maintenance. You do the math for firefighters and those poor folk in any part of the auto industry.

My son is a firefighter and EVs pose a real risk for first respondents in terms of both electrocution and fire.
 
Easy, expand Union to the EV factories and producers and if you need less labor, so be it. Employment in one particular industry cannot stand in the way of progress. Retrain those you do not need into other jobs.

They make the same argument about coal, but we cant stay in the dark ages simply to keep people employed.

How is that easy? If it were easy would there be a strike going on? You yourself said you stand with labor in this dispute. Labor doesn't take kindly to their jobs being removed but that seems to be the reality of a move towards more EVs. What other jobs are these auto workers going to be trained for within the company?
 
This forum's EV "expert" Joey wet panties, tells us hourly that EV's have no moving parts, never catch fire, and NEVER require any maintenance. You do the math for firefighters and those poor folk in any part of the auto industry.

To each his own what car people choose to drive, just not something I care about. I'm asking about the labor negotiation, not the quality of EVs.
 
That figure is horse shit.
OK I'll take the word of an ambulance chaser over the CEO of Ford.

:eyeroll:

Ford CEO Jim Farley made a blockbuster of a statement this week. According to the somewhat jovial and optimistic cousin of late comedic actor Chris Farley, producing electric vehicles requires about 40% less labor than producing the same number of fossil-powered cars.
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/11/16/ford-ceo-40-less-labor-to-build-electric-vehicles/


The impact of EVs on auto manufacturing and supplier jobs is harder to assess. Electric vehicles require new or retooled factories, each requiring thousands of employees. How many will be new hires versus existing workers who are retrained is not clear. BMW, for example, claims it will not cut jobs in the transition to EVs, but it is likely that it will still reduce its workforce by both reskilling and attrition as other German automakers are contemplating. Further, given that EVs are said to need 30 percent less labor to produce than ICE vehicles, coupled with more automation that will be used for their manufacturing, many assembly line jobs may disappear.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-ev-transition-explained-2658797703
 
I acknowledge up front not being a car person. It's just not something I'm all that knowledgeable or passionate about. Nor am I a union person. I've never been in a union nor can I speak to their true inter-workings. That being said, I found this Odd Lots Podcast with Steven Rattner quite interesting/insightful. Rattner is a Democrat who Obama appointed as the 'car czar' during the auto bailouts of the late aughts. Rattner is clearly a smart guy and almost caught me off guard that he spoke here not as an ideologue or a partisan but just as someone who has been on the front lines and understands all sides of the issue.

Here's my question (and my apologies if this topic has already been discussed). He referenced the negotiation points of the UAW and not that they are in total conflict with EVs but they also aren't fully seeing eye-to-eye in the sense that EVs tend to use less labor, which isn't exactly ideal from a union perspective. Is that the case? (He referenced a company like Tesla being non-unionized and having advantages as a result when competing against the traditional automakers.)

He also broke down the UAW demands and what he felt were reasonable asks and 'crazy' asks, which was insightful. For anyone so inclined here's the link to the podcast.


When the US auto industry needed a restructuring or bailout in 2009, the Obama administration tapped former banker and investor Steven Rattner to lead the effort. As the government's "car czar," he helped shape an agreement that saw the United Auto Workers accept significant concessions in order to preserve the financial stability of the big three American carmakers. Now the UAW is on strike, with an aim of reversing many of those concessions and gaining new benefits for their workers. So what can the UAW reasonably accomplish? How plausible are their asks? And can US industry remain competitive with higher labor costs? On this episode of Odd Lots, we speak with Rattner to get his take on the negotiations, the challenge of the energy transition on the incumbent automakers, and the goals of Bidenomics more broadly, as the administration seeks to boost domestic manufacturing in areas like EVs, batteries, and semiconductors.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...e-uaw-strike-and/id1056200096?i=1000628747870

Here is the "inner workings" of a union. Members pay dues to a union that works in coordination with management so they can remain relevant and continue to demand that members pay union dues. Unions are like personal injury lawyers. They get a cut of what you win in court but never suffer a second of discomfort. Whenever lawyers are involved they are the only ones who really win.
 
Easy, expand Union to the EV factories and producers and if you need less labor, so be it. Employment in one particular industry cannot stand in the way of progress. Retrain those you do not need into other jobs.

They make the same argument about coal, but we cant stay in the dark ages simply to keep people employed.

AI should replace lawyers.
 
To each his own what car people choose to drive, just not something I care about. I'm asking about the labor negotiation, not the quality of EVs.

Why would automakers negotiate long term contracts with people they will no longer need?
 
Then he should cut one open to extract crash victims. :whoa:

I work PT at a facility that has a firefighting training tower. They bring in a lot of wrecks to practice with the jaws of life. They will not allow any type of EV's into the fenced grounds for fear of fire and explosion.
 
Isn't this a bit like the buggy whip manufacturers trying to stop progress so that they can keep making money selling buggy whips?
 
Isn't this a bit like the buggy whip manufacturers trying to stop progress so that they can keep making money selling buggy whips?

That's kind of the impression I was getting but I know that it may not be that black and white. (Everything is so politized and you have people virtue signaling their stance such as 'I stand with labor' that I appreciated getting a more nuanced view of the positions and negotiations taking place.)
 
How is that easy? If it were easy would there be a strike going on? You yourself said you stand with labor in this dispute. Labor doesn't take kindly to their jobs being removed but that seems to be the reality of a move towards more EVs. What other jobs are these auto workers going to be trained for within the company?

I do not support keeping jobs around at the cost of scientific and societal progress, I do support retraining.

I stand with labor in that they could give huge raises with small percentage cuts in CEO and Executive salaries.

I do not know what they will do, maybe lose them to attrition or big severens packages, but dont stick with old tech to save unnecessary jobs.
 
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