Bidenomics: US credit worthiness downgraded

[Dutch Uncle]

if I had anything to do with deciding our credit rating, I'd cut it too. With republicans ignorant enough to threaten a government shutdown over a debt limit in attempt to hurt the other party, how can you trust that country with it's own finances? The last time it was lowered was when Ted Cruz damn near shut down govt in attempt to kill the Affordable Care Act. Only a blithering idiot jackass thinks a govt shutdown would be a good thing and threatening it is almost as bad as doing it. A fraction of a percentage point causes our debt to increase a few trillion like, immediately. Thank you republicans for once again being idiots.

Agreed government shutdowns, threats to fail to pay our debts, threats of overthrowing the Federal government along with threats of a civil war are all major factors that contribute to the downgrading.

Anyone who doesn't realize who is pushing those factors is either a liar or a fucking moron.

 

[cawacko]

It's kind of like saying you aren't talking about the 800 pound gorilla sitting on the sofa. Bottom line, this brinksmanship, lying, and downright stupidity of the GOP members of Congress caused this downgrade, along with concerns about, basically, the foundational institutions of the country. And those concerns are legit. I disagree that this is arbitrary. How long can this criminal be tied in the presidential polls. It's got my attention too and I am making contingency plans. I have genuine concerns, especially living here in Florida and with my income tied up in

That said, I completely agree that entitlements need reform. My solutions and yours may be different, but that problem has to be solved. I prefer an approach that puts the SS burden on the rich, and not on the recipients. And Medicare for all is a MUST to save Medicare, along with a much greater emphasis on prevention and better health, and a more honest approach to palliative care. Problem is, the GOP is taking us backwards. We are becoming a third world country, and it is the result of the wage wealth gap. That is also an issue that MUST be addressed.

I'll throw this out there. It's really interesting (to me at least) that although they are for very different reasons, you have people on both the left and right who think America is becoming a third world country. Again for different reasons, you have a fair number of people on both the left and right who are very bearish on America's future.

When you're in such a time it can be harder to see a more positive future, but America's greatness will always rise to the top imo. (Globalization and technology have been game changers bringing both incredible wealth and with it more inequality. We've also had a monetary policy that catered toward the wealthy driving inequality even higher and putting us in a position where addressing these concerns is more difficult) So while the challenges are real, I'm still bullish on America.

 

[Concart]

I'll throw this out there. It's really interesting (to me at least) that although they are for very different reasons, you have people on both the left and right who think America is becoming a third world country. Again for different reasons, you have a fair number of people on both the left and right who are very bearish on America's future.

When you're in such a time it can be harder to see a more positive future, but America's greatness will always rise to the top imo. (Globalization and technology have been game changers bringing both incredible wealth and with it more inequality. We've also had a monetary policy that catered toward the wealthy driving inequality even higher and putting us in a position where addressing these concerns is more difficult) So while the challenges are real, I'm still bullish on America.

I am actually very bullish. I think we’ve reached the tipping point. My wife says I’m a Pollyanna. That said, there is still a possibility that it all goes wrong. But we rank low on every single metric when compared with other western industrialized nations. But I think that can change. This country has enormous wealth. Every problem we have is solvable. But the wage wealth thing is going to have to involve a large wealth distribution. It’s doable but Donald Trump must go first.

 

[Lionfish]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1686012198726795265

 

[Lionfish]

I am actually very bullish. I think we’ve reached the tipping point. My wife says I’m a Pollyanna. That said, there is still a possibility that it all goes wrong. But we rank low on every single metric when compared with other western industrialized nations. But I think that can change. This country has enormous wealth. Every problem we have is solvable. But the wage wealth thing is going to have to involve a large wealth distribution. It’s doable but Donald Trump must go first.

Proof your wife is much smarter than you.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1686012198726795265

 

[cawacko]

I am actually very bullish. I think we’ve reached the tipping point. My wife says I’m a Pollyanna. That said, there is still a possibility that it all goes wrong. But we rank low on every single metric when compared with other western industrialized nations. But I think that can change. This country has enormous wealth. Every problem we have is solvable. But the wage wealth thing is going to have to involve a large wealth distribution. It’s doable but Donald Trump must go first.

Not to make it personal but you yourself have referenced having a healthy net worth. How much of that would you like to see the gov't take to distribute to others? (of course this would also apply to those with a personal balance sheet similar to yours)

 

[Concart]

Not to make it personal but you yourself have referenced having a healthy net worth. How much of that would you like to see the gov't take to distribute to others? (of course this would also apply to those with a personal balance sheet similar to yours)

I should not be paying at a lower rate than a teacher or a cop. That’s a good start. At least I get dinged for Medicare I’m probably not a one tenth of one per-center but even if a wealth tax hit me I would not have to give up a thing. If me and everyone above me got hit for 5% I’d be thrilled provided it went toward things like free daycare, free post secondary education, job training etc. I think some of the logistics would be tricky but I’m in. Remember the famous line from Wall Street. ‘How many yachts can you ski behind’. I’m not at that level but ex-wife one is and she would also gladly do it. She already has a huge foundation.

Bottom line, I believe we will return to a better place when this is over. It’s stunning how differently I view conservative Republicans that stood up for democracy. Liz Cheney, as much as I may disagree with her, is not the devil. She is a fellow American who wants the same things I do but has very different solutions. I think that perspective will make us stronger. Trump and his cult? They do not want the same things I do. They want a white Christian country run by men with an autocrat at the helm. And they will not worry about the Constitution when they impose that on the country.

 

[cawacko]

I should not be paying at a lower rate than a teacher or a cop. That’s a good start. At least I get dinged for Medicare I’m probably not a one tenth of one per-center but even if a wealth tax hit me I would not have to give up a thing. If me and everyone above me got hit for 5% I’d be thrilled provided it went toward things like free daycare, free post secondary education, job training etc. I think some of the logistics would be tricky but I’m in. Remember the famous line from Wall Street. ‘How many yachts can you ski behind’. I’m not at that level but ex-wife one is and she would also gladly do it. She already has a huge foundation.

Bottom line, I believe we will return to a better place when this is over. It’s stunning how differently I view conservative Republicans that stood up for democracy. Liz Cheney, as much as I may disagree with her, is not the devil. She is a fellow American who wants the same things I do but has very different solutions. I think that perspective will make us stronger. Trump and his cult? They do not want the same things I do. They want a white Christian country run by men with an autocrat at the helm. And they will not worry about the Constitution when they impose that on the country.

This is purely anecdotal but I'll offer an example. In San Francisco we've raised taxes several times under the guise of spending more to help the homeless. Most recently Marc Benioff, CEO of Salesforce, backed an increased business tax for SF companies to address homeless issues. Yet with all this money raised the problems have only gotten worse. Now it would be unrealistic to expect the problem to be solved but not unrealistic to expect to see improvement, yet we haven't. That's how I view a lot of gov't programs. It's not that we should have no gov't or gov't should play no role, but simply giving the gov't more money and expecting it to address the issues you laid out isn't going to cut it imo. That's not its strength.

I understand you'll disagree as will many others. Living where I do I'm around a lot of people with money. I've heard differing opinions on the whole wealth tax idea. I've heard a few for it but, at least among my circle, more against (small sample size however). We've put ourselves in a fiscal bind as a country and servicing our debt and paying out entitlements to retiring boomers is going to leave a lot less for everything else.

 

[QP!]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1686012198726795265

Trump the debt tamer needs to come back to fix this!!

FLOL at your TDS.

 

[QP!]

The #1 factor in debt rating and consideration is 'risk of default'. The US was considered 0 risk of default for decades.

When you know you will always get paid back, then the cost of debt goes way down.

Republi'cans' have made it clear, and it was by design, that the US has a very real chance of default. That, if Republi'cans' feel it can help them get power, they will gladly push the US into default, and harm the country and every citizen in it, just to get elected.

Every year the republi'cans' get a bit closer to making it happen, so ya, of course debt rating agencies need to price in the very real chance of default the republi'cans' pose.

 

[Port Tack]

This is purely anecdotal but I'll offer an example. In San Francisco we've raised taxes several times under the guise of spending more to help the homeless. Most recently Marc Benioff, CEO of Salesforce, backed an increased business tax for SF companies to address homeless issues. Yet with all this money raised the problems have only gotten worse. Now it would be unrealistic to expect the problem to be solved but not unrealistic to expect to see improvement, yet we haven't. That's how I view a lot of gov't programs. It's not that we should have no gov't or gov't should play no role, but simply giving the gov't more money and expecting it to address the issues you laid out isn't going to cut it imo. That's not its strength.

I understand you'll disagree as will many others. Living where I do I'm around a lot of people with money. I've heard differing opinions on the whole wealth tax idea. I've heard a few for it but, at least among my circle, more against (small sample size however). We've put ourselves in a fiscal bind as a country and servicing our debt and paying out entitlements to retiring boomers is going to leave a lot less for everything else.

We will never get a handle on our debt without govt increasing its revenue. This country used to tax the extremely wealthy as much as 80% and no one making that sort of income has to give up anything. It is the only way a country such as ours can survive. You talk about "all this money raised" that is a joke. Triple or quadruple it for 20 years and you might start to see a difference. We are headed for a financial bust and when it happens the Jeff Bezos of the world will high tail it with their trillions leaving this country broke. Asshole republicans saying we need to cut spending aren't going to put a dent our debt, it's large enough now that we won't be able to pay the interest on it much less reduce it.

 

[Port Tack]

The #1 factor in debt rating and consideration is 'risk of default'. The US was considered 0 risk of default for decades.

When you know you will always get paid back, then the cost of debt goes way down.

Republi'cans' have made it clear, and it was by design, that the US has a very real chance of default. That, if Republi'cans' feel it can help them get power, they will gladly push the US into default, and harm the country and every citizen in it, just to get elected.

Every year the republi'cans' get a bit closer to making it happen, so ya, of course debt rating agencies need to price in the very real chance of default the republi'cans' pose.

Every time some jackass from the republican party endorses a default they need to be removed. Those are the ones directly responsible for our credit downgrade. The recent downgade probably cost us 10 times more in interest than what the republicans want to cut from spending. Now there is talk of the assholes doing it again.

House GOP conservatives send McCarthy an ultimatum on funding the government
As worries about a fall shutdown grow, the 21 Republicans, led by Reps. Scott Perry and Chip Roy, are threatening to vote down government funding bills unless demands are met.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/co...carthy-ultimatum-funding-government-rcna93549

Here we go again with fucking brain dead republicans asking for another credit downgrade.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Every time some jackass from the republican party endorses a default they need to be removed. Those are the ones directly responsible for our credit downgrade. The recent downgade probably cost us 10 times more in interest than what the republicans want to cut from spending. Now there is talk of the assholes doing it again.

Here we go again with fucking brain-dead republicans asking for another credit downgrade.

Every Republican who supported defaulting on our debt is part of the reason why the US credit was downgraded. Don't expect Trumpers to agree; they're all liars, mentally ill and/or anti-American traitors.

The Republican Freedom Caucus supported defaulting on US debt. Are they really so fucking stupid that they didn't think other nations, banks and global businesses weren't paying attention? Based upon the JPP Trumper membership, I think they were, indeed, that fucking stupid.

https://www.newsweek.com/who-house-freedom-caucus-full-list-members-after-midterms-results-1758547
Who Is In House Freedom Caucus? Full List of Members After Midterms Results
Elected Members in the 117th Congress
Rep. Scott Perry (PA)

Rep. Lauren Boebert (CO)

Rep. Chip Roy (TX)

Rep. Jim Jordan (OH)

Rep. Warren Davidson (OH)

Rep. Andy Biggs (AZ)

Rep. Dan Bishop (NC)

Rep. Mo Brooks (AL)

Rep. Ken Buck (CO)

Rep. Ted Budd (NC)

Rep. Madison Cawthorn (NC)

Rep. Ben Cline (VA)

Rep. Michael Cloud (TX)

Rep. Andrew Clyde (GA)

Rep. Scott DesJarlais (TN)

Rep. Byron Donalds (FL)

Rep. Jeff Duncan (SC)

Rep. Russ Fulcher (ID)

Rep. Louie Gohmert (TX)

Rep. Bob Good (VA)

Rep. Paul Gosar (AZ)

Rep. Mark Green (TN)

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (GA)

Rep. Morgan Griffith (VA)

Rep. Andy Harris (MD)

Rep. Diana Harshbarger (TN)

Rep. Yvette Herrell (NM)

Rep. Jody Hice (GA)

Rep. Clay Higgins (LA)

Rep. Debbie Lesko (AZ)

Rep. Mary Miller (IL)

Rep. Alex Mooney (WV)

Rep. Barry Moore (AL)

Rep. Ralph Norman (SC)

Rep. Gary Palmer (AL)

Rep. Bill Posey (FL)

Rep. Matt Rosendale (MT)

Rep. David Schweikert (AZ)

Rep. Greg Steube (FL)

Rep. Tom Tiffany (WI)

Rep. Randy Weber (TX)

New Members Endorsed By House Freedom Fund
Josh Brecheen (OK)

Eli Crane (AZ)

Anna Paulina Luna (FL)

Max Miller (OH)

 

[cawacko]

We will never get a handle on our debt without govt increasing its revenue. This country used to tax the extremely wealthy as much as 80% and no one making that sort of income has to give up anything. It is the only way a country such as ours can survive. You talk about "all this money raised" that is a joke. Triple or quadruple it for 20 years and you might start to see a difference. We are headed for a financial bust and when it happens the Jeff Bezos of the world will high tail it with their trillions leaving this country broke. Asshole republicans saying we need to cut spending aren't going to put a dent our debt, it's large enough now that we won't be able to pay the interest on it much less reduce it.

Realistically speaking, we don't have unlimited money so there cannot be unlimited spending. And 'all the money raised' is not a joke. When you pass several tax increases saying you are going to address an issue, and not only do you not see an improvement but the situation gets worse, that's an issue to many people.

Our government has no fiscal discipline. Give it more money and it will simply spend more. People said it didn't matter because interest rates we so low. I guess they thought that would last forever. Now you have to raise taxes, making our economy less dynamic, simply to try and sustain the current levels of spending and promised benefits. That's without offering anything additional.

It took two political parties, and the federal reserve, to make this happen. Partisans mindlessly blaming everything on the other 'side' while taking no responsibility themselves is why we are in this situation and why it will not change.

 

[Port Tack]

Realistically speaking, we don't have unlimited money so there cannot be unlimited spending. And 'all the money raised' is not a joke. When you pass several tax increases saying you are going to address an issue, and not only do you not see an improvement but the situation gets worse, that's an issue to many people.

Our government has no fiscal discipline. Give it more money and it will simply spend more. People said it didn't matter because interest rates we so low. I guess they thought that would last forever. Now you have to raise taxes, making our economy less dynamic, simply to try and sustain the current levels of spending and promised benefits. That's without offering anything additional.

It took two political parties, and the federal reserve, to make this happen. Partisans mindlessly blaming everything on the other 'side' while taking no responsibility themselves is why we are in this situation and why it will not change.

We are in this situation because in the days of Eisenhower or Kennedy the very rich paid as much as 80+ % in income taxes while today we have people like Mitt Romney making 20 million per year and paying 13%. Less than what his secretary making 75k pays. Not to mention Mitt is small fish compared to all those making billions each year. You go ahead and make the asinine claim that doubling or tripling this countries income won't do any good.

 

[cawacko]

We are in this situation because in the days of Eisenhower or Kennedy the very rich paid as much as 80+ % in income taxes while today we have people like Mitt Romney making 20 million per year and paying 13%. Less than what his secretary making 75k pays. Not to mention Mitt is small fish compared to all those making billions each year. You go ahead and make the asinine claim that doubling or tripling this countries income won't do any good.

When you talk about the tax rates of the '50's you can't just throw out a number like 80% without telling the whole story of how our system was structured at the time. It was very different in pass throughs, the way we taxed gains etc.

If you want to take it to a more extreme, why not tax people at 100%? That should certainly give the government the money it needs for all the programs we desire right? Most people would correctly say that would reduce incentive and make our system less productive and dynamic. Point being there are trade offs when you want to jack up tax rates.

Are you a MMT supporter? Because the belief there is we control the printing press and deficits don't matter so we can essentially print enough money to meet our needs if we so desire.

 

[Concart]

When you talk about the tax rates of the '50's you can't just throw out a number like 80% without telling the whole story of how our system was structured at the time. It was very different in pass throughs, the way we taxed gains etc.

If you want to take it to a more extreme, why not tax people at 100%? That should certainly give the government the money it needs for all the programs we desire right? Most people would correctly say that would reduce incentive and make our system less productive and dynamic. Point being there are trade offs when you want to jack up tax rates.

Are you a MMT supporter? Because the belief there is we control the printing press and deficits don't matter so we can essentially print enough money to meet our needs if we so desire.

In general he is correct. Our tax structure is a grotesque policy that benefits rich people at the cost of the middle class. It is what it is. It is the reason for the seismic shift upward in wealth distribution that began with the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980. That is no coincidence.

 

[Nordberg]

And the inflation rate dropped again. Biden is doing all that can be done.

 

[cawacko]

And the inflation rate dropped again. Biden is doing all that can be done.

Where did you see that the rate dropped?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Where did you see that the rate dropped?

It varies month to month. The overall trend is what is important.

https://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/CurrentInflation.asp?reloaded=true