Outstanding Article

[Mott the Hoople]

For those of the center right political tradition who have abandoned the republican party this article hits the nail squarely on the head! His paraphrasing of Reagan is dead on.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/12/leaving-the-right.html

 

[apple0154]

For those of the center right political tradition who have abandoned the republican party this article hits the nail squarely on the head! His paraphrasing of Reagan is dead on.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/12/leaving-the-right.html

Exactly!

(Excerpt) "I cannot support a movement that so abandoned government's minimal and vital role to police markets and address natural disasters that it gave us Katrina and the financial meltdown of 2008."(End)

I think that's at the root of why people blame Bush for the financial meltdown. He should have known what was happening. He should have warned the people and not by addressing it in an occasional speech but with the same vigor he promoted the war with Iraq.

The Republican party represents complete and total incompetence.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I think that's at the root of why people blame Bush for the financial meltdown. He should have known what was happening. He should have warned the people and not by addressing it in an occasional speech but with the same vigor he promoted the war with Iraq.

The Republican party represents complete and total incompetence.

Bush DID know what was happening to the republican party as he was one of the main architects. Declared it himself.

 

[cawacko]

Exactly!

(Excerpt) "I cannot support a movement that so abandoned government's minimal and vital role to police markets and address natural disasters that it gave us Katrina and the financial meltdown of 2008."(End)

I think that's at the root of why people blame Bush for the financial meltdown. He should have known what was happening. He should have warned the people and not by addressing it in an occasional speech but with the same vigor he promoted the war with Iraq.

The Republican party represents complete and total incompetence.

People in both parties were jumping all over themselves trying to promote home ownership to minorities and trying to take credit for the growing percentage. You think a Republican President is going to say this has gone to far we need to cut off the minority spigit with these loans specifically geared towards the poor?

Well, it's possible a Canadian might not understand but people in America do.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

People in both parties were jumping all over themselves trying to promote home ownership to minorities and trying to take credit for the growing percentage. You think a Republican President is going to say this has gone to far we need to cut off the minority spigit with these loans specifically geared towards the poor?

Well, it's possible a Canadian might not understand but people in America do.

Both parties share plenty of blame but that's a bullshit argument and a strawman. Now if you had pointed out that it was Bill Clinton who signed the bill repealing Glass-Steagal you'd have a point. Bush certainly has to take his share of the blame for being asleep at the wheel again.

 

[cawacko]

Both parties share plenty of blame but that's a bullshit argument and a strawman. Now if you had pointed out that it was Bill Clinton who signed the bill repealing Glass-Steagal you'd have a point. Bush certainly has to take his share of the blame for being asleep at the wheel again.

Of course Bush does but what does that have to do with being a strawman? We can go back into the '90's and see problems with more lax SEC regulations etc. problems that Bush exahserbated (sp). If you were in the federal government in the past 20 years you helped contribute to the financial meltdown.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Honestly, after that list, how could of he have ever considered himself conservative at all? Those are core conservative values. Whatever is wrong about the human condition, conservatives support it.

 

[Adam Weinberg]

Honestly, after that list, how could of he have ever considered himself conservative at all? Those are core conservative values. Whatever is wrong about the human condition, conservatives support it.

I'd tell Andrew Sullivan the same thing I told you.

If the right isn't holding up its end of the bargain, he and people like him are the only ones who can change it. He doesn't want to roll with the left, so he'd better be part of coming up with a better version of the right.

I understand he doesn't want to be part of a movement that abandons its principles, but he also can't bring it back to its principles by abandoning the movement.

Being involved is the only choice he has if he cares about the direction of the country and doesn't want to get bowled over by the left.

 

[TuTu Monroe]

What party shows the real incompetence? Sorry, baby, I didn't mean to interrupt.

Click here

Exactly!

(Excerpt) "I cannot support a movement that so abandoned government's minimal and vital role to police markets and address natural disasters that it gave us Katrina and the financial meltdown of 2008."(End)

I think that's at the root of why people blame Bush for the financial meltdown. He should have known what was happening. He should have warned the people and not by addressing it in an occasional speech but with the same vigor he promoted the war with Iraq.

The Republican party represents complete and total incompetence.

 

[Bonestorm]

People in both parties were jumping all over themselves trying to promote home ownership to minorities and trying to take credit for the growing percentage. You think a Republican President is going to say this has gone to far we need to cut off the minority spigit with these loans specifically geared towards the poor?

Well, it's possible a Canadian might not understand but people in America do.

Dude, as someone that supposedly has some knowledge of the current shitshow that is CRE, your acceptance of the nonsensical notion that government attempts to promote home ownership to minorities was the cause for the financial meltdown blows my fucking mind. Use your head.

 

[cawacko]

Dude, as someone that supposedly has some knowledge of the current shitshow that is CRE, your acceptance of the nonsensical notion that government attempts to promote home ownership to minorities was the cause for the financial meltdown blows my fucking mind. Use your head.

It's not like that was the sole cause of the meltdown but it played a role. You can go back and look at quotes from Barney Frank to George W. Bush who were championing (sp) more lax regulations on loans to help those who had been previously shut out of the housing market get in. I must admit at the time I thought it a good thing too.

Obviously there was a multiple of factors involved in the financial meltdown. Too much cheap capital, lax government enforcement of regulations, crazy leverage ratios, horrible job done by rating agencies among others.

 

[cawacko]

It's not like that was the sole cause of the meltdown but it played a role. You can go back and look at quotes from Barney Frank to George W. Bush who were championing (sp) more lax regulations on loans to help those who had been previously shut out of the housing market get in. I must admit at the time I thought it a good thing too.

Obviously there was a multiple of factors involved in the financial meltdown. Too much cheap capital, lax government enforcement of regulations, crazy leverage ratios, horrible job done by rating agencies among others.

Not that you wouldn't already but please tell me if you think I am wrong with my assessment above.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

the article is flawed....torture is not a core value of the right, the guy admits he never really belonged to the right....

you should be embarrassed for posting that mott....midcan posted it at another forum....think about it, you are just like midcan....

 

[apple0154]

What party shows the real incompetence? Sorry, baby, I didn't mean to interrupt.

Click here

Regardless of which party did what or signed which bills isn't the point. The person in charge is not supposed to sit back and let things happen.

Consider the way Bush pushed the Iraq war. He was on TV frequently enough to have his own show. If he knew a financial crisis was coming and he should have known he should have advocated for action as vigorously as he did for the war.

Something as serious as the financial crisis required him to demand Congress make whatever changes are necessary even if he had to go on TV every night, all night long. His responsibility as the leader was to do everything in his power to stop it from happening. That's where he failed.

He convinced people the war was a necessity when it wasn't but he never tried to convince the people there was a financial crisis looming and there was.

As for interrupting just jump on me and sit ..........

 

[cawacko]

Regardless of which party did what or signed which bills isn't the point. The person in charge is not supposed to sit back and let things happen.

Consider the way Bush pushed the Iraq war. He was on TV frequently enough to have his own show. If he knew a financial crisis was coming and he should have known he should have advocated for action as vigorously as he did for the war.

Something as serious as the financial crisis required him to demand Congress make whatever changes are necessary even if he had to go on TV every night, all night long. His responsibility as the leader was to do everything in his power to stop it from happening. That's where he failed.

He convinced people the war was a necessity when it wasn't but he never tried to convince the people there was a financial crisis looming and there was.

As for interrupting just jump on me and sit ..........

Well a lot of people didn't think the financial crisis was coming. A lot of people thought there would be just a bump in the road and things would proceed as they had been.

In 2007 there was no way for the President and Congress to pass any sort of law telling Wall Street firms to deleverage themselves. And Congress already fought against reforms to Freddie and Fannie.

What's going to happen now is what's happened for decades. Congress will pass laws so that 'this crisis never happens again.' Well that's great. They'll be another bubble however as there always has been in the past and Congress will be late to the party.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Well a lot of people didn't think the financial crisis was coming. A lot of people thought there would be just a bump in the road and things would proceed as they had been.

In 2007 there was no way for the President and Congress to pass any sort of law telling Wall Street firms to deleverage themselves. And Congress already fought against reforms to Freddie and Fannie.

What's going to happen now is what's happened for decades. Congress will pass laws so that 'this crisis never happens again.' Well that's great. They'll be another bubble however as there always has been in the past and Congress will be late to the party.

yes

 

[Damocles]

Exactly!

(Excerpt) "I cannot support a movement that so abandoned government's minimal and vital role to police markets and address natural disasters that it gave us Katrina and the financial meltdown of 2008."(End)

I think that's at the root of why people blame Bush for the financial meltdown. He should have known what was happening. He should have warned the people and not by addressing it in an occasional speech but with the same vigor he promoted the war with Iraq.

The Republican party represents complete and total incompetence.

Yet you give a pass to the leaders on the left who actually promoted the companies that were most directly involved just weeks before the meltdown?

It was never my contention that republicans weren't involved, I simply point out for the ignorant who think it was only Bush who is responsible that his "occasional speeches" were far more than anybody on the left had going for them. He did more than the leaders you hand the pass to and we are all supposed to follow that failure into the abyss because Bush only did a few speeches? I call bullcrap on this type of partisan blindness.

 

[apple0154]

Yet you give a pass to the leaders on the left who actually promoted the companies that were most directly involved just weeks before the meltdown?

It was never my contention that republicans weren't involved, I simply point out for the ignorant who think it was only Bush who is responsible that his "occasional speeches" were far more than anybody on the left had going for them. He did more than the leaders you hand the pass to and we are all supposed to follow that failure into the abyss because Bush only did a few speeches? I call bullcrap on this type of partisan blindness.

I'm not giving anyone a pass. Those other "leaders" were not the President.

The one in charge is responsible regardless of whom did what. That's the way things are supposed to work, however, we have such a screwed up system today that the President gets a free ride and people who work for bankrupt companies get bonuses while others say there's too much control/government interference.

The chair in the Oval Office is supposed to represent more than a park bench. It's about time someone sat in it and took control.

 

[cawacko]

I'm not giving anyone a pass. Those other "leaders" were not the President.

The one in charge is responsible regardless of whom did what. That's the way things are supposed to work, however, we have such a screwed up system today that the President gets a free ride and people who work for bankrupt companies get bonuses while others say there's too much control/government interference.

The chair in the Oval Office is supposed to represent more than a park bench. It's about time someone sat in it and took control.

I don't know if you're saying this as just an anti-Bush rant or you really mean it about the Presidency itself but while the buck does have to stop with the President the President is not a dictator and for good reason so even they only have so much control.

 

[cawacko]

I'm not giving anyone a pass. Those other "leaders" were not the President.

The one in charge is responsible regardless of whom did what. That's the way things are supposed to work, however, we have such a screwed up system today that the President gets a free ride and people who work for bankrupt companies get bonuses while others say there's too much control/government interference.

The chair in the Oval Office is supposed to represent more than a park bench. It's about time someone sat in it and took control.

And as far as being able to stop a bubble the Fed has far more power over that than the President with the Fed's ability to adjust rates.