Republicans Don’t Own Patriotism

domer76 said:
Right. Bumper stickers, flags flying from the bed of your pickup, 2nd Amendment bullshit on your car, “America, love it or leave it” crap.

‘Murica!

Guess what, moondog, in ‘Murica, I get to form my own opinion based on others’ words and actions. When I see some jackass flying a “Fuck Biden” flag from his house (my neighbor), he pretty much is telling the world something, isn’t he?,
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"Murica isn't a word...not sure why you keep using it....;) That and your blanket judgement of patriotic Americans tells me everything I need to know about you...so I'll repeat it...I'm so very glad not to think and and believe and rage as you do...You are a big part of the problem...I bet you don't even know your neighbor with the nasty flag...Why do you think he feels that way about Joe? I wonder about those who feel the need to spew profanity in public or online...I usually make an effort to find out why...
Sometimes they have a pretty good reason...though I encourage them to find different ways to express themselves... I don't use that kind of language myself when posting here...or on social media...or in public... If my neighbor had a flag like that, we'd have a talk...:)
 
guno said:
That is your MO
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Yep. She accused him of not flying the flag, as though she judged him not-a-patriot. Toxic thinks that being a patriot means posting smarmy flag and soldier memes on Facebook and Twitter, and here of course. It's nothing more than virtue-signaling, which is what Domer was talking about.
 
TOP said:
"Murica isn't a word...not sure why you keep using it....;) That and your blanket judgement of patriotic Americans tells me everything I need to know about you...so I'll repeat it...I'm so very glad not to think and and believe and rage as you do...You are a big part of the problem...I bet you don't even know your neighbor with the nasty flag...Why do you think he feels that way about Joe? I wonder about those who feel the need to spew profanity in public or online...I usually make an effort to find out why...
Sometimes they have a pretty good reason...though I encourage them to find different ways to express themselves... I don't use that kind of language myself when posting here...or on social media...or in public... If my neighbor had a flag like that, we'd have a talk...:)
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0y2NSFX.jpg


:laugh:
 
cawacko said:
Here's another one for you. Why would any patriot be opposed to this? Or better yet, wouldn't one be an anti-patriot to oppose a group giving what a majority of Americans say they want, a choice other than Biden and Trump?



Who’s Afraid of a Third Party?

The left is attacking the group No Labels for wanting an alternative to a Biden-Trump rematch.


A majority of Americans say they prefer presidential nominees other than Joe Biden or Donald Trump in 2024, yet the parties are on track to give them exactly this choice. So why has the group that is trying to give voters an alternative become a target of media and Democratic hostility?

That’s the predicament of No Labels, a centrist group of Republicans and Democrats organizing to get a spot on the ballot in 2024 in case the major parties default to a Biden-Trump race. Democrats claim the group will elect Mr. Trump if the third party does get on the ballot. The press is piling on the disdain, digging not so deep to report that one of the donors to No Labels is Harlan Crow, the rich friend of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. But anyone who knows Mr. Crow knows he’s no fan of Mr. Trump.

No Labels has other donors, and its founder and CEO is Nancy Jacobson, the wife of Mark Penn, the former Hillary and Bill Clinton pollster. Its national co-chairs include Ben Chavis, the civil-rights legend, and Joe Lieberman, former Democratic Senator and vice presidential candidate. Former GOP Govs. Larry Hogan and Pat McCrory are also co-chairs. None are admirers of Mr. Trump.

The progressive complaint is that if a No Labels ticket made it onto enough state presidential ballots in 2024, it couldn’t win but could be a spoiler. Democrats say a third candidate would take more votes from Mr. Biden, perhaps deny him the 270 Electoral College votes to win, and throw the election into the House. With each state House delegation having one vote for President, they say, Mr. Trump would be the likely winner.

That’s possible, as anything seems to be in politics these days. But it’s hardly guaranteed. The most successful recent third-party candidate, Ross Perot, won 19% of the vote and no electoral votes in 1992. But he divided the GOP coalition and caused President George H.W. Bush’s support to collapse to a vote share of 37.5%. Bill Clinton won with 43%.

The last three elections have shown that a sizable chunk of GOP voters don’t want to vote for a party dominated by Mr. Trump. A third-party candidate might be a safe harbor for these voters to abandon Mr. Trump again.

It’s true that the odds of a third-party candidate winning the election are long. The Electoral College means that winning a plurality of votes isn’t enough. You have to finish first in enough states to get to 270 electoral votes.

In today’s polarized presidential map, each major party has an advantage in states with close to 220 electoral votes. That means a third-party candidate would need to build a center-out Electoral College majority by carrying swing states like Wisconsin, Virginia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Colorado and many others. Calling this a tall order is an understatement.

Then again, No Labels says its polling shows the public is open to a third-party candidate—59% of all voters would consider a moderate independent, including 53% of Republicans and 59% of Democrats. No Labels is already on the ballot in five states and hopes to get on all 50.

The group plans to have a convention next spring after the March primaries when they’ll see where the Democratic and GOP nominations are heading. If a better nominee emerges in either party, No Labels would bow out. If the race is Biden-Trump the sequel, the group is likely to nominate a centrist ticket.

Who those candidates are would be crucial, and in our view it might require a moderate Republican like New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu at the top of the ticket. Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin would be a plausible veep nominee. The party would then have to fight to get its candidate on the presidential debate stage, assuming there is a debate.

Another obstacle is that the group lacks a galvanizing issue or agenda that the two parties are ignoring. Its platform is likely to be a set of compromises on immigration, the budget deficit and other issues on which the two parties are stalemated. But its main pitch would be as an alternative to what would by then be an 81-year-old President and a 78-year-old former President, both of whom are unpopular.

***
What we don’t understand is the obloquy heaped on No Labels. Its members are patriots who want to spare the country from a campaign that offers four more years of the last two polarizing Presidencies. Second terms are notoriously weak even when the winning candidate is popular.

If nothing else, the presence of No Labels may serve to wake up both parties that they can do better, and should do better, or face a third-party challenge. Serious Republicans are running against Mr. Trump, and Democrats worried about Mr. Biden’s vulnerability could do the same. Voters certainly deserve better than a 2020 rerun.




https://www.wsj.com/articles/no-lab...berman-harlan-crow-df14ad46?mod=hp_opin_pos_1
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I love the idea of third parties, in fact, I voted for John Anderson in 1976, and I voted three times for an Independent for Governor.

That being said, I'd like the country to delay its exercise program until AFTER its off of life support. Now is not the time.
 
Concart said:
I love the idea of third parties, in fact, I voted for John Anderson in 1976, and I voted three times for an Independent for Governor.

That being said, I'd like the country to delay its exercise program until AFTER its off of life support. Now is not the time.
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When I was a young kid my father took me to a John Anderson rally in 1980.

The issue I have with your statement is every single election we hear 'this is the most important election in a generation' or 'the future of our country rests on this' etc. With that type of rhetoric there will never be a 'good' time for a real third party.

To me, there has never been a better time. We literally have two leading candidates for whom the majority of each party don't want. And in spirit of Jarod's claim that one is not a patriot who doesn't support democracy, having a No Labels party candidate run is democracy in action. (of course because they put up a candidate doesn't mean one has to vote for them)
 
cawacko said:
When I was a young kid my father took me to a John Anderson rally in 1980.

The issue I have with your statement is every single election we hear 'this is the most important election in a generation' or 'the future of our country rests on this' etc. With that type of rhetoric there will never be a 'good' time for a real third party.

To me, there has never been a better time. We literally have two leading candidates for whom the majority of each party don't want. And in spirit of Jarod's claim that one is not a patriot who doesn't support democracy, having a No Labels party candidate run is democracy in action. (of course because they put up a candidate doesn't mean one has to vote for them)
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The only thing that matters in 2024 is that Donald Trump does not win the Presidency. If he does, we are done. That is not hyperbole. There has never been a more important moment in our history. Now is not the time to experiment. We are facing a fascist threat. It must be struck down.
 
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