Understatement: ‘Oklahoma Students Fail’

Superfreak said:
All of this is just my opinion:

I think that lack of respect comes from our coddling of the kids. We removed the ability of educators to have disciplinary control over the kids. When I was a kid... you did NOT want to go see the principal and his paddle collection. You especially did not want a second trip to his office because that guaranteed the use of the paddle with da holes in it. Obviously we don't want discipline taken to the extreme, but a couple of whacks with a paddle will generally get a kids attention. Also... note to education administrations.... suspension from school... not a good idea. Kids tend to like the idea of a day off. Make them in school suspensions.

We also began this insane strategy of teaching to the lowest common denominator and then wondering at the same time why so many kids were suddenly being diagnosed with A.D.D. We do not all learn in the same manner, nor do we learn at the same speed. It is ignorant to try to teach to them in the same manner.

Also... side rant... enough of the kids sports where 'everyone is a winner'. What possible lesson can kids take from that? Oh yeah.... no matter what I do or how hard I try...'I win'???????? Losses TEACH us valuable lessons.
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I'd rep you here if I could. It won't let me. This is a great post and tells it just like I see it. When I was in school the kids who had college aspirations and the kids who didn't took different classes after a point. The government has made that "point" the last semester of their senior year because No Child Is To Be Left Behind. Hello.......not every kid is cut out to be a CEO or engineer or .... (name any career). Some kids are going to be Urban Refuse Engineers (trashmen we used to call them) or Maintenance Engineers (mechanics) and be just fine with it. Let them take courses that allow that pursuit instead of lumping all into one educational path in high school. O man, I could go on as this gets me fired up.

And discipline....I was visiting last night with my old high school principal at the school board meeting. There was one man I didn't want to get on the bad side of when I was in school. I had the greatest fear of....which grew into the greatest respect for that man. My how times have changed.

And the "everyone's a winner" thing. I played baseball in high school. We were pretty good. Our record my senior year was 38-8. Thirty-eight times someone experienced losing. No one committed suicide over that. Eight times we lost...and we're still kicking. Life lessons learned from being a part of a team......priceless as the commercial says. Every member of that baseball team has been successful in life. Only one went pro and now he owns a very successful window cleaning business in a large Texas city. SF, you really got me on my soap box here. I'll quit but man could I say a lot about this stuff.....looking at it from both the left side and the right side. I have issues with both.
 
leaningright said:
I will be the last person to come to the defense of the public education system in Oklahoma. I have been a part of it for over 20 years and I have stated on this board and in several other venues that there needs to be a change in the way things are done/taught. Because of the powers that be putting all of the emphasis on reading and math, we don't even touch on science and social studies in most schools until the 4rd grade. Basically that is all that is taught. It isn't right but that is the way it is in most public schools here. Social promotion is rampant and neither teachers nor students are held accountable. That needs to change.

That being said, I find if funny that Watermark uses a "conservative think tank" (thier words not mine - http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=10620737) to post disparaging (albeit true) information about Oklahoma to seemingly show how stupid a conservative state is. At least to me that is about the only reason WM would think that posting this would prove. Anyway, look at the Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs. The goal of this group is to discredit the public school system as much as they can. Look at the articles on their home page (http://www.ocpathink.org/homepage/) and you can tell immediately that the group promotes private education and the government's support of it and that they support many other "conservative" issues. I wouldn't think a liberal thinker like Watermark would give them the time of day.

Yes, you can look at almost any reputable research and see that Oklahoma ranks near the bottom of the states (but not nearly THE bottom) when it comes to educational issues in everything from "chances for success" to teacher pay. I'm not proud of it. It is interesting that WM chose a conservative site against public education entirely to make his point.
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Sorry, Leaningright, I didn't write the article, I just reposted it because it was at the top of reddit. Mostly I found the graphs fascinating; didn't really read the blog much.

I think Mississippi's the bottom of education. The Democrats here were kicked out about 20 years ago under a bizarrely successful Republican attack that the Mobus and Winters crowd was "obsessed with education". Since then we've gotten Republican after Republican and a very conservative Democrat.
 
Watermark said:
Sorry, Leaningright, I didn't write the article, I just reposted it because it was at the top of reddit. Mostly I found the graphs fascinating; didn't really read the blog much.

I think Mississippi's the bottom of education. The Democrats here were kicked out about 20 years ago under a bizarrely successful Republican attack that the Mobus and Winters crowd was "obsessed with education". Since then we've gotten Republican after Republican and a very conservative Democrat.
Click to expand...

Hey, I agree man. Like I said in a later post on this thread, I have issues with both the left and the right when it comes to education.
 
Watermark said:
From teaching ID in science class?
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LOL, nope. Most do not even want to teach ID. Hands are tied as to what is taught. By that I mean a mostly watered down curriculum that appeals to the lowest common denominator. They have no choice due to government requirements and time constraints.
 
leaningright said:
LOL, nope. Most do not even want to teach ID. Hands are tied as to what is taught. By that I mean a mostly watered down curriculum that appeals to the lowest common denominator. They have no choice due to government requirements and time constraints.
Click to expand...

OK, you were responding to Bravo's asinine comment about liberal education so I go confused.

It's amazing, looking back, at how easy the high school curriculum was. I never had to study once. The first year of college almost killed me, and I was taking it easy.e
 
Superfreak said:
All of this is just my opinion:

I think that lack of respect comes from our coddling of the kids. We removed the ability of educators to have disciplinary control over the kids. When I was a kid... you did NOT want to go see the principal and his paddle collection. You especially did not want a second trip to his office because that guaranteed the use of the paddle with da holes in it. Obviously we don't want discipline taken to the extreme, but a couple of whacks with a paddle will generally get a kids attention. Also... note to education administrations.... suspension from school... not a good idea. Kids tend to like the idea of a day off. Make them in school suspensions.

We also began this insane strategy of teaching to the lowest common denominator and then wondering at the same time why so many kids were suddenly being diagnosed with A.D.D. We do not all learn in the same manner, nor do we learn at the same speed. It is ignorant to try to teach to them in the same manner.

Also... side rant... enough of the kids sports where 'everyone is a winner'. What possible lesson can kids take from that? Oh yeah.... no matter what I do or how hard I try...'I win'???????? Losses TEACH us valuable lessons.
Click to expand...

LOL, corporal punishment wasn't mandatory at my school but nearly everyone had their form sign. It doesn't really do anything to improve education.

I won't even get into a debate with the ADD deniers, but the evidence is against you.
 
Watermark said:
OK, you were responding to Bravo's asinine comment about liberal education so I go confused.

It's amazing, looking back, at how easy the high school curriculum was. I never had to study once. The first year of college almost killed me, and I was taking it easy.e
Click to expand...

Yeah, it shows.....today you just gotta put your time in to graduate....you know it and I know it....and its not much different in some colleges....pay the tuition, nod your head a lot, and above all, agree with the political indoctrination, global warming, gay marriage, and affirmative action......:cof1:
 
leaningright said:
I'd rep you here if I could. It won't let me. This is a great post and tells it just like I see it. When I was in school the kids who had college aspirations and the kids who didn't took different classes after a point. The government has made that "point" the last semester of their senior year because No Child Is To Be Left Behind. Hello.......not every kid is cut out to be a CEO or engineer or .... (name any career). Some kids are going to be Urban Refuse Engineers (trashmen we used to call them) or Maintenance Engineers (mechanics) and be just fine with it. Let them take courses that allow that pursuit instead of lumping all into one educational path in high school. O man, I could go on as this gets me fired up.

And discipline....I was visiting last night with my old high school principal at the school board meeting. There was one man I didn't want to get on the bad side of when I was in school. I had the greatest fear of....which grew into the greatest respect for that man. My how times have changed.

And the "everyone's a winner" thing. I played baseball in high school. We were pretty good. Our record my senior year was 38-8. Thirty-eight times someone experienced losing. No one committed suicide over that. Eight times we lost...and we're still kicking. Life lessons learned from being a part of a team......priceless as the commercial says. Every member of that baseball team has been successful in life. Only one went pro and now he owns a very successful window cleaning business in a large Texas city. SF, you really got me on my soap box here. I'll quit but man could I say a lot about this stuff.....looking at it from both the left side and the right side. I have issues with both.
Click to expand...

I had to pull myself back off the box as well. I also have issues with both parties on this. They try to cookie cutter their approach to teaching and how they treat students and that just does not work.
 
Watermark said:
LOL, corporal punishment wasn't mandatory at my school but nearly everyone had their form sign. It doesn't really do anything to improve education.

I won't even get into a debate with the ADD deniers, but the evidence is against you.
Click to expand...

LMAO.... I would be willing to bet that most kids who are diagnosed with ADD are just bored. Our minds already work far faster than any human can teach. Slowing things down is just going to increase the percentage of kids who get bored and thus distracted. It is amazing how those ADD kids suddenly lose their ADD when they are enjoying/interested in what they are doing.
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO.... I would be willing to bet that most kids who are diagnosed with ADD are just bored. Our minds already work far faster than any human can teach. Slowing things down is just going to increase the percentage of kids who get bored and thus distracted. It is amazing how those ADD kids suddenly lose their ADD when they are enjoying/interested in what they are doing.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's sort of the problem. They have very low dopamine levels in the brain, and so the threshold of interest to engage attention is much higher. The reward system in the brain is out of whack.
 
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