Biden Says He Has Authority to Challenge Debt Limit

[Into the Night]

He proposed the budget and signed it when passed by Congress. He increased unemployment benefits by $600 a week by executive order and signed the $2.2 trillion CARES ACT which gave everybody stimulus checks.

As the old saying goes, "Democrats tax and spend and Republicans borrow and spend." Both are bankrupting the country.

Borrowing is not the budget, dumbass.
The CARES Act was created by Congress, not Trump.

Trump signed the bill because it was part of the budget bill, and there were was enough to override the President's veto anyway.

 

[Into the Night]

No you DID NOT.

What mechanism would STOP Trump, in a next admin of just spending past the new debt ceiling and demanding they just raise it?

Cite me the exact mechanism that would bind and stop him so it could not be done. Trump had 3 prior debt ceilings he completely ignored and blew through. What forces him not to do so next time?

The Constitution of the United States Article 1. Trump does not have the authority to spend anything. Only the House can initiate spending bills. Only Congress has authority to borrow money. There is no such thing as a 'debt ceiling'.

 

[Into the Night]

read the 14th. Then seek out someone who will take the time to explain it to you. You are not cracking up, you are cracked.

Inversion fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes. Thank you making my point.

As i have stated, our ENTIRE history is one of POTUS Administrations, along with Congress just blowing through the debt ceiling as COngress seems to entirely ignore the Debt Ceiling when setting their budgets to enact the POTUS agenda, knowing the Potus can just ask them to raise the debt ceiling after the fact.

That is REALITY.

What is the HYPOTHETICAL is this notion that you are pushing that by simply lowering the debt ceiling now, suddenly the next POTUS and Congress will change their behaviour. That the key to keeping Trump, in his 2016 administration from blowing through the debt ceiling 3 times was to LOWER IT. And like magic, Trump would have said 'well i was prepared to blow thru a higher Debt Ceiling but not a lower one'.


This is where your brain denies any semblance of logic as NOTHING you have said curtails the past behaviour. There is nothing to bind Trump (or any other POTUS) in 2024 who gets in, with a friendly COngress from blowing thru it again and just demanding it be raised.


You say i am wrong but the one thing you will NOT do, is present a single thing that would bind and prevent that happening in the next admin in 2024.

That is because you know you are wrong. You know you got nothing.

Hallucination. There is no such thing as a 'debt ceiling'.

 

[Into the Night]

nothing there shows what you said. I see 'authorized by law' and I see 'shall have power'...............by appropriate legislation..................but I see nothing that mandates or forces congress to pay it's bills, nor do I see anything that allows the executive to bypass the congress........

thank you for proving that you don't know the Constitution and that I was right.

It's amazing how they continue to demonstrate that.

It comes from denying and discarding the Constitution for so long. They'll quote pieces of it all day long, and discard and deny the entire document.

 

[Jarod]

Nope. It requires none of it.
The 14th amendment only specifies that the debt obligation continues (the debt is still recognized).

Wrong

 

[Nordberg]

Wrong

He just plays opposites. He will insult and call names like a child too.

 

[Into the Night]

Wrong

Argument of the Stone fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

He just plays opposites. He will insult and call names like a child too.

Inversion fallacy.

 

[Flash]

Borrowing is not the budget, dumbass.
The CARES Act was created by Congress, not Trump.

Trump signed the bill because it was part of the budget bill, and there were was enough to override the President's veto anyway.

They did not have a 2/3 majority to override a veto. Trump wanted a larger stimulus payment and said he would have won Georgia if it passed.

Trump's executive order did not need congressional approval and he increased unemployment benefits $600 a week which led to many people staying out of work until their benefits expired. And the Payroll Protection Program was full of fraud, waste, and forgiven loans (like to Marjorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz). Trump was as bad as Biden in being fiscally irresponsible.

 

[Celticguy]

He posted the link. Go read it. It answers your question.

he's wrong and he knows it so he's just being a cunt.

and I see he's now tryingh to move the goalposts, as always...

 

[Nordberg]

The 14th does provide a way for Biden to force the issue. However, the Dems are reluctant to use it. They do not want to set a precedent. Biden thinks he can work out a deal. Mccarthy would likely have his speakership threatened by the rightys if he did the right thing. However, if the Dems vote to help him keep his spot, he may act like an adult.

 

[Damocles]

There is enough revenue each month to pay for the interest on the debt and no reason to pretend that there isn't unless you are idiots like the 37% that still believe that it's republicans' fault that Biden refused to speak to Republicans about this for Months. The 14th Amendment does not guarantee timely payments, only recognition of one wars' worth of debt. This is nonsense. Nobody is questioning the debt, they are questioning the apportionment of funds that put us even further into debt. This is not an Amendment 14 issue, he knows it, we all know it, even BP knows it.

If Biden doesn't get the Senate to pick up and vote for the extension passed by Congress for the debt limit, then he would have to direct his Treasurer to pay the interest and, like Obama, he would have to close down portions of the government that he could not pay for. He has no right to take over Congressional duties and powers and he would lose in the SCOTUS.

 

[Nordberg]

There is enough revenue each month to pay for the interest on the debt and no reason to pretend that there isn't unless you are idiots like the 37% that still believe that it's republicans' fault that Biden refused to speak to Republicans about this for Months. The 14th Amendment does not guarantee timely payments, only recognition of one wars' worth of debt. This is nonsense. Nobody is questioning the debt, they are questioning the apportionment of funds that put us even further into debt. This is not an Amendment 14 issue, he knows it, we all know it, even BP knows it.

If Biden doesn't get the Senate to pick up and vote for the extension passed by Congress for the debt limit, then he would have to direct his Treasurer to pay the interest and, like Obama, he would have to close down portions of the government that he could not pay for. He has no right to take over Congressional duties and powers and he would lose in the SCOTUS.

It is bigger than that. If he allows Congress to determine his political agenda, then we have a Republican government. They are using the debt ceiling as a method of extortion. Biden has to stop it or the debt ceiling will determine our policies. The 14th does give him power. Why should Biden give in to extortion? It says "The validity of the debt of the US, shall not be questioned". Not paying what we owed is certainly doing that. here is the brain of the repub party explaining the debt ceiling.

 

[Damocles]

It is bigger than that. If he allows Congress to determine his political agenda, then we have a Republican government. They are using the debt ceiling as a method of extortion. Biden has to stop it or the debt ceiling will determine our policies. The 14th does give him power. Why should Biden give in to extortion? It says "The validity of the debt of the US, shall not be questioned". Not paying what we owed is certainly doing that. here is the brain of the repub party explaining the debt ceiling.

This is what Checks and Balances are. I know you don't like the constitution, but this is how it was designed to work. Being elected President does not make you a dictator, even if you have a "pen and a phone". The left is losing this argument. According to polls reported by CNN 60% agree that we should include spending reduction in this debt limit increase.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/23/poli...s say,catastrophe looms large over Washington.

CNN
—
Sixty percent of Americans say Congress should only raise the nation’s debt ceiling if it cuts spending at the same time, according to a new CNN Poll conducted by SSRS, as the government’s June 1 “hard deadline” to avoid economic catastrophe looms large over Washington. Few see President Joe Biden or the Republicans in Congress as acting responsibly in negotiations over the debt limit, with most in both parties more concerned that their side will give up too much than that the United States will default on its debt.

 

[Nordberg]

This is what Checks and Balances are. I know you don't like the constitution, but this is how it was designed to work. Being elected President does not make you a dictator, even if you have a "pen and a phone". The left is losing this argument. According to polls reported by CNN 60% agree that we should include spending reduction in this debt limit increase.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/23/poli...s say,catastrophe looms large over Washington.

You know no such thing. I like the Constitution. The 14th is in the constitution. Therefore you do not like it.
Yes the masses are swayed by sophistry. They are risking so much to "own" the Dems. Biden using a constitutional amendment to keep us from a potential financial disaster is not being a dictator. It is following the law.

 

[Damocles]

You know no such thing. I like the Constitution. The 14th is in the constitution. Therefore you do not like it.
Yes the masses are swayed by sophistry. They are risking so much to "own" the Dems. Biden using a constitutional amendment to keep us from a potential financial disaster is not being a dictator. It is following the law.

The 14th says that incurred debt should be recognized, then specifies civil war debt and which debt would not be repaid (loss of "slaves" for example) it does not grant the power to the executive to mount more debt at all, nor does it state that it must be "paid now" or that the Executive has any power over appropriation. This is a specious argument, even Dementia Joe knows it, Obama knew it (and he was actually a law professor at one point)...

The reality is they know that the SCOTUS will knock this down. You can't get past the fact that this is not a power granted to the Executive.

 

[Nordberg]

The 14th says that incurred debt should be recognized, then specifies civil war debt and which debt would not be repaid (loss of "slaves" for example) it does not grant the power to the executive to mount more debt at all, nor does it state that it must be "paid now" or that the Executive has any power over appropriation. This is a specious argument, even Dementia Joe knows it, Obama knew it (and he was actually a law professor at one point)...

The reality is they know that the SCOTUS will knock this down. You can't get past the fact that this is not a power granted to the Executive.

The 14th use is a stretch, but if Biden wants to use it, he can. It has never been used for the debt. It is defensible. Daffy Donald would use it in a second.
The 14th does essentially what lifting the debt limit does. It does not refer to new debt . It recognizes and pays for what we already spent and owe.

 

[Into the Night]

They did not have a 2/3 majority to override a veto.

Blatant lie. Yes they did.

Trump wanted a larger stimulus payment

Blatant lie. No, he didn't.

and said he would have won Georgia if it passed.

Hallucination. Georgia never chose any electors.

Trump's executive order did not need congressional approval

Any spending of money requires congressional approval.

and he increased unemployment benefits $600 a week which led to many people staying out of work until their benefits expired.

Approved by Congress.

And the Payroll Protection Program was full of fraud, waste, and forgiven loans (like to Marjorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz). Trump was as bad as Biden in being fiscally irresponsible.

Neither Trump nor Biden are authorized to spend money. Only the House has that authority. That's Democrats, dude.

 

[Into the Night]

\
The 14th does provide a way for Biden to force the issue.

Blatant lie. No, it doesn't.

\
However, the Dems are reluctant to use it.

The Democrats, like you, discard and ignore the Constitution.

\
They do not want to set a precedent.

The Democrats don't care about setting a precedent.

\
Biden thinks he can work out a deal. Mccarthy would likely have his speakership threatened by the rightys if he did the right thing. However, if the Dems vote to help him keep his spot, he may act like an adult.

What 'deal'?