Did Biden really blow up NORDSTREAM? - Russia set to MOTHBALL damaged pipelines

The obvious suspects are the Ukrainians and perhaps dissident Russians. They have the technology and the divers, why do people attempt to dismiss it out of hand?

Too much to lose if they got caught? A PR disaster for whoever did it.

Did Ukraine do it for profit?

"Russian gas to Europe via Ukraine rises

Reuters
https://www.reuters.com › business › energy › russian-ga...
ukraine pipeline still open from www.reuters.com
Feb 1, 2023 — The transit line through Ukraine remains the only remaining route for Russian gas flows to central and western Europe after the Nord Stream ..."
 
The obvious suspects are the Ukrainians and perhaps dissident Russians. They have the technology and the divers, why do people attempt to dismiss it out of hand?
how is Ukraine forces going to be able to operate in the Baltic Sea without being noticed? I suppose they could commandeer a ship or use a Russian ship - but then divers and crew would probably leak the activity. It's been a firm denial - unlike the USA and Biden's/Blinkens too cute statements "it wont be there if they do"

The criticism of the Seymour Hersh report is it from a single source -well what other sources are able to
display such a granular timeline all easily supported?
 
So Sorry, but PUTIN is responsible for many more deaths than that.

And if you think 100,000 people are going to freeze to death over having to change from Russian GAS to other sources that are available to them, then FOX NEWS has some Ocean Front Property, 11 miles south of Galveston Island, and some cheap pillows, to sell you!

Because that is nothing more than RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA!

Really? Do tell.
 
how is Ukraine forces going to be able to operate in the Baltic Sea without being noticed? I suppose they could commandeer a ship or use a Russian ship - but then divers and crew would probably leak the activity. It's been a firm denial - unlike the USA and Biden's/Blinkens too cute statements "it wont be there if they do"

The criticism of the Seymour Hersh report is it from a single source -well what other sources are able to
display such a granular timeline all easily supported?

They have wheat ships going all over the world, not a problem! Anyway pretty sure the Poles could been called on to help if need be.
 
They have wheat ships going all over the world, not a problem! Anyway pretty sure the Poles could been called on to help if need be.
Uk grain shipment on the Baltic are launched from Polish port of Gdańsk I assume?
But that means the grain has to be railed there
Other then that I dont see how any UK wheat shipments get to the Baltic, and Russia lets grain ships out thru the Black sea woud would not then passage to the Baltics

That's a far cry from the Seymour Hersh scenario that US/Norway divers used a NATO exercise as cover for divers to plant the charges. Straightforward strategy and logistics

Seem like most of this is a search for some kind of plausible alternative, but no facts backing it up
Hersh nailed it
 
Uk grain shipment on the Baltic are launched from Polish port of Gdańsk I assume?
But that means the grain has to be railed there
Other then that I dont see how any UK wheat shipments get to the Baltic, and Russia lets grain ships out thru the Black sea woud would not then passage to the Baltics

That's a far cry from the Seymour Hersh scenario that US/Norway divers used a NATO exercise as cover for divers to plant the charges. Straightforward strategy and logistics

Seem like most of this is a search for some kind of plausible alternative, but no facts backing it up
Hersh nailed it

Here are all the theories, enjoy!

https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-kremlin-russia-who-blew-up-nord-stream-2/
 
how is Ukraine forces going to be able to operate in the Baltic Sea without being noticed? I suppose they could commandeer a ship or use a Russian ship - but then divers and crew would probably leak the activity. It's been a firm denial - unlike the USA and Biden's/Blinkens too cute statements "it wont be there if they do"

The criticism of the Seymour Hersh report is it from a single source -well what other sources are able to
display such a granular timeline all easily supported?

I have read Seymour's story, my friend.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

Shortly into the article, it felt like it was written by a democrat. And the anonymous source was aware of Hersh's bias and played into it.

And the story contained unnecessary fluff while failing to mention anything at all about Pres. Reagan's initial precedent in opposition to a much earlier Russian pipeline.

So Hersh never mentions anything about a bomb for the 4th pipeline or what happened to the sonar "trigger" buoy.

He claims the Democrats ALWAYS opposed NS 2. I find that hard to believe.

Then he claims ...

"A few months later, as the construction of the second pipeline neared completion, Biden blinked. That May, in a stunning turnaround, the administration waived sanctions against Nord Stream AG, with a State Department official conceding that trying to stop the pipeline through sanctions and diplomacy had “always been a long shot.” Behind the scenes, administration officials reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, by then facing a threat of Russian invasion, not to criticize the move."


Then he says this ...

"The administration’s attention once again was focused on Nord Stream. As long as Europe remained dependent on the pipelines for cheap natural gas, Washington was afraid that countries like Germany would be reluctant to supply Ukraine with the money and weapons it needed to defeat Russia."

Well, Germany had already killed the NS2 pipeline.

I can't believe this story without having several more sources confiem it.

All covert operators know that to create a believable fake story, you need about 98% of it to be true and you must include granularity.
 
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In fact, it is unknown who did it. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...rd-stream-pipeline-suspects-and-theories.html Originally it was thought that 6 people on a large sailboat did it. Now we do not know. The pipes are in 200 ft deep water. It takes a righty to say they know who did it without proof.

If you read the story by Hersh, it feels like he is portraying Biden as a tough heroic warrior and military genius.

:dunno:

I'm pretty sure Seymour Hersh is a Democrat.
 
"4 minute readMarch 3, 20231:11 PM EST
Exclusive: Russia set to mothball damaged Nord Stream gas pipelines"

MOSCOW/FRANKFURT, March 3 (Reuters) - Russia's ruptured undersea Nord Stream gas pipelines are set to be sealed up and mothballed as there are no immediate plans to repair or reactivate them, sources familiar with the plans have told Reuters."



https://www.reuters.com/business/en...NKFURT, March 3 (,the plans have told Reuters

I thought you said he had dementia?
 
I have read Seymour's story, my friend.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

Shortly into the article, it felt like it was written by a democrat. And the anonymous source was aware of Hersh's bias and played into it.

And the story contained unnecessary fluff while failing to mention anything at all about Pres. Reagan's initial precedent in opposition to a much earlier Russian pipeline.

So Hersh never mentions anything about a bomb for the 4th pipeline or what happened to the sonar "trigger" buoy.

He claims the Democrats ALWAYS opposed NS 2. I find that hard to believe.

Then he claims ...

"A few months later, as the construction of the second pipeline neared completion, Biden blinked. That May, in a stunning turnaround, the administration waived sanctions against Nord Stream AG, with a State Department official conceding that trying to stop the pipeline through sanctions and diplomacy had “always been a long shot.” Behind the scenes, administration officials reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, by then facing a threat of Russian invasion, not to criticize the move."


Then he says this ...

"The administration’s attention once again was focused on Nord Stream. As long as Europe remained dependent on the pipelines for cheap natural gas, Washington was afraid that countries like Germany would be reluctant to supply Ukraine with the money and weapons it needed to defeat Russia."

Well, Germany had already killed the NS2 pipeline.

I can't believe this story without having several more sources confiem it.

All covert operators know that to create a believable fake story, you need about 98% of it to be true and you must include granularity.

We don't know when those remotely triggered explosives were laid, it's perfectly possible that the Russians did themselves after all they already have have form for these kind of operations.

Russia’s Purported Sabotage Of The Nord Stream Pipeline Marks A Point Of No Return

Russia’s Purported Sabotage Of The Nord Stream Pipeline Marks A Point Of No Return

On April 28, 1986, two days after the Chernobyl disaster, Swedish scientists detected radiation emanating from the Soviet Union. After much hemming and hawing, the Western detection of radiation forced the Soviets to admit to the world what had happened in Chernobyl and retract previous statements.

History once again rhymed when on Sept. 27, 2022, seismographs near Bornholm, Denmark recorded two explosions emanating from the Nord Stream pipeline. This discredits earlier Russian statements that these are simple leaks. And don’t expect Russian President Vladimir Putin to come clean like Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev eventually did.

This is not the first time the Russians have — in my opinion — lied about energy infrastructure damage to weaponize their energy resources or geographical position as a transit country. Multiple prewar disputes with Ukraine, Finland, the Baltics, and recent attempts to hold Kazakhstan’s energy exports hostage due to its defiance regarding Ukraine, stand out as examples. In every case, the Russians obfuscated by blaming “storms,” “poor equipment,” and even a rubber duck to drum up plausible deniability.

However, the attacks on Nord Stream are more dire than anything we previously saw. This suspected act of sabotage signals a point of no return. The economic damage caused by these attacks has Europe poised to land in a recession as deep as the one in 2009.

There can now be no negotiated reopening or resumption of deliveries even if the battlefields of Ukraine instantly fall silent. The Russians have achieved their immediate goal, with Reuters reporting “Nord Stream AG said it was impossible to estimate when the gas network system’s working capability would be restored.” This winter, Europe is doomed to face the worst energy crisis since the Arab oil embargo of 1974, or worse.

European leaders have already decided this was sabotage. Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki described the presumed attack as the “next step of escalation of the situation in Ukraine” while the Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen called them “deliberate acts.” European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen promised “the strongest possible response to attacks on European energy infrastructure.” Norway responded by deploying its armed forces to guard pipelines from any further “accidents.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielc...ne-mark-a-point-of-no-return/?sh=70ff2ee5dba8
 
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the motive and method ( albeit the inconsistencies BD showed - good research) work best for the USA though
Poland denies. and the idea of "pro-Uk forces" being able to pull it off is remote

Also Hersh shows the cover by NATO exercise with Norway and how the charges were laid for remote detonation, And it's like Biden to get played by US intel who prolly came up with the following
whispering in his ear:
~`
1. It suggested Biden’s rationale was to sever once and for all Russia’s gas link to Germany, ensuring that no amount of Kremlin blackmail could deter Berlin from steadfastly supporting Ukraine.

2. Hersh's article also drew on Biden’s public remarks when, in February 2022, shortly before Russia’s full-scale invasion, he told reporters that should Russia invade “there will be no longer Nord Stream 2. We will
bring an end to it.”
 
We don't know when those remotely triggered explosives were laid, it's perfectly possible that the Russians did themselves after all they already have have form for these kind of operations.

Russia’s Purported Sabotage Of The Nord Stream Pipeline Marks A Point Of No Return

Russia’s Purported Sabotage Of The Nord Stream Pipeline Marks A Point Of No Return

On April 28, 1986, two days after the Chernobyl disaster, Swedish scientists detected radiation emanating from the Soviet Union. After much hemming and hawing, the Western detection of radiation forced the Soviets to admit to the world what had happened in Chernobyl and retract previous statements.

History once again rhymed when on Sept. 27, 2022, seismographs near Bornholm, Denmark recorded two explosions emanating from the Nord Stream pipeline. This discredits earlier Russian statements that these are simple leaks. And don’t expect Russian President Vladimir Putin to come clean like Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev eventually did.

This is not the first time the Russians have — in my opinion — lied about energy infrastructure damage to weaponize their energy resources or geographical position as a transit country. Multiple prewar disputes with Ukraine, Finland, the Baltics, and recent attempts to hold Kazakhstan’s energy exports hostage due to its defiance regarding Ukraine, stand out as examples. In every case, the Russians obfuscated by blaming “storms,” “poor equipment,” and even a rubber duck to drum up plausible deniability.

However, the attacks on Nord Stream are more dire than anything we previously saw. This suspected act of sabotage signals a point of no return. The economic damage caused by these attacks has Europe poised to land in a recession as deep as the one in 2009.

There can now be no negotiated reopening or resumption of deliveries even if the battlefields of Ukraine instantly fall silent. The Russians have achieved their immediate goal, with Reuters reporting “Nord Stream AG said it was impossible to estimate when the gas network system’s working capability would be restored.” This winter, Europe is doomed to face the worst energy crisis since the Arab oil embargo of 1974, or worse.

European leaders have already decided this was sabotage. Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki described the presumed attack as the “next step of escalation of the situation in Ukraine” while the Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen called them “deliberate acts.” European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen promised “the strongest possible response to attacks on European energy infrastructure.” Norway responded by deploying its armed forces to guard pipelines from any further “accidents.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielc...ne-mark-a-point-of-no-return/?sh=70ff2ee5dba8
why do all that kill any possibility of future sales to Germany? just turn the valves off
Putin destroying his own infrastructure that potentially brings revenue again is a hard sell
 
why do all that kill any possibility of future sales to Germany? just turn the valves off
Putin destroying his own infrastructure that potentially brings revenue again is a hard sell

You thought the Russians were not implicated with Novichok or with the Syrians against the White Helmets. The infrastructure is really only pipes which can be restored quickly enough if need be, but not by Putin.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63542467
 
So Sorry, but PUTIN is responsible for many more deaths than that.

And if you think 100,000 people are going to freeze to death over having to change from Russian GAS to other sources that are available to them, then FOX NEWS has some Ocean Front Property, 11 miles south of Galveston Island, and some cheap pillows, to sell you!

Because that is nothing more than RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA!
Idiot there are lots of Texas ocean front properties that are south of Galveston. Brownsville and Corpus Christi for example are south of Galveston. And My Pillows are kind of expensive.
 
You thought the Russians were not implicated with Novichok or with the Syrians against the White Helmets. The infrastructure is really only pipes which can be restored quickly enough if need be, but not by Putin.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63542467
dont bring up the past issues that have nothing to do with today.
( like telling me how Libya would grow out of the Qadaffi area) -not germane
I wont argue the white hats

Besides it's not just the pipes, its the permitting and getting the money together for a new one
The entire energy sector is a mess Russia only selling to non-Euro countries /Ukraine used to bitch over not getting transit fees because of Nordstream
...I guess Ukraine doesnt get any now...not that they need them -the USA is now Ukraine's piggy bank

as usual the morons in charge of the USA disavantaged their own country because of stupid ideas like blowing up the pipeline
 
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