Debunking the Most Common EV Myths Right here. MAGAs wet panties.
- Thread starter Joe Capitalist
- Start date
Define massive? https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fa...-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs They have what most people would call enormous.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
I guess you didn't see where I already quoted from this source and showed, what the graph I posted shows, that virtually all of the so-called "subsidies" are simply tax and accounting methods and laws that are generally applicable to businesses in general and not specific "subsidies" (defined as payments out by the government to business) to the oil industry.
Giving them tax relief is a subsidy. The oil companies have been getting breaks and tax write-offs for many decades. How about the very, very cheap leases of government land they get? Look at these profits and explain to me why we should subsidize them? https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-oil-sectors-staggering-profits-last-50-years
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Using LIFO (Last In, First Out) as an accounting technique is something ANY company making a product can do. It isn't a fucking subsidy as that site claims.
Depreciating assets is an accounting technique ANY company can use. It isn't a fucking subsidy as that site claims.
The site is biased heavily against the oil industry and is grasping at any straw to make them look bad.
The reality is that the oil industry isn't heavily subsidized, while solar and wind would collapse and fail without heavy subsidies. That's just how it is.
Injecting what other nations do with oil production into a discussion about the US oil industry doesn't fly either.
They are international companies and run other governments too. They fly fine. https://www.euronews.com/green/2023...-900-billion-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-in-2022
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Oil companies run governments? I don't think so...
As for a clearly biased source, they are saying the same thing. US oil companies, in the US, don't get subsidized much at all. On the other hand, wind and solar get massive subsidizes because they are so unprofitable and uneconomic that without them they would, and will, fail.
They get enormous subsidies. I remember when oil refineries were being rebuilt. The Clinton admin was forcing them to update their pollution system and smokestacks. The oil lobbyists got a bill passed that if they did a less than 30 percent rebuild of the plant they were not forced to update to new pollution requirements. Every plant was doing 29 percent after that. Lobbying and money give oil companies huge gifts from the American people while they gouge us like crazy.
EV owners drove by the long long gas station lines last week in Florida.https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/19/business/south-florida-gas-shortages/index.html My EV does not dance to the music of the oil companies.
How far did they drive?
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Here's the latest EV myth busted. They get shitty milage real-life compared to what's claimed...
The on-road test results were aligned with the certification information for each vehicle model including unadjusted and label fuel economy and range, road load force coefficients, and labeling options. Tractive energy and kinetic energy available for regenerative braking were computed from the certification information to evaluate the differences between the on-road testing and chassis-rolls testing conducted during the certification process.
Based on these results, the highway fuel economy label tends to be a very good predictor of the fuel economy observed during the on-road test at real highway speeds with vehicles powered by an ICE. However, most BEVs tested to date fall short of both their electric consumption and range label values. For BEVs, the difference between the label and on-road consumption and range is further exacerbated by other factors, such as extreme temperatures and suggestions by automakers to charge to less than 100 percent to extend battery life.
https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2023-01-0349/
On Car and Driver's 75-mph highway test, more than 350 internal-combustion vehicles averaged 4.0 percent better fuel economy than what was stated on their labels. But the average range for an EV was 12.5 percent worse than the price sticker numbers.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...1&cvid=75ed13f5bb2b45b3b5b7bbe8a48327e0&ei=15
So, drivers in the "flyover" states and West would be getting screwed once again because they do more sustained highway driving than urban stop and go at low speeds.
ICE vehicles proved better at this sort of driving than EV's by a wide margin (about 16% better mileage overall).
The on-road test results were aligned with the certification information for each vehicle model including unadjusted and label fuel economy and range, road load force coefficients, and labeling options. Tractive energy and kinetic energy available for regenerative braking were computed from the certification information to evaluate the differences between the on-road testing and chassis-rolls testing conducted during the certification process.
Based on these results, the highway fuel economy label tends to be a very good predictor of the fuel economy observed during the on-road test at real highway speeds with vehicles powered by an ICE. However, most BEVs tested to date fall short of both their electric consumption and range label values. For BEVs, the difference between the label and on-road consumption and range is further exacerbated by other factors, such as extreme temperatures and suggestions by automakers to charge to less than 100 percent to extend battery life.
https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2023-01-0349/
On Car and Driver's 75-mph highway test, more than 350 internal-combustion vehicles averaged 4.0 percent better fuel economy than what was stated on their labels. But the average range for an EV was 12.5 percent worse than the price sticker numbers.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...1&cvid=75ed13f5bb2b45b3b5b7bbe8a48327e0&ei=15
So, drivers in the "flyover" states and West would be getting screwed once again because they do more sustained highway driving than urban stop and go at low speeds.
ICE vehicles proved better at this sort of driving than EV's by a wide margin (about 16% better mileage overall).
Joe Capitalist
Racism is a disease
Why do you hate EVs so much Terrance? What did they ever do to you?
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
I've said before, I don't hate them at all. You want one, buy one. What I hate is government telling me I have to buy one. 14 states (all Blue) now have set dates that they will no longer allow ICE vehicles to be sold there. That's government dictating what kind of vehicle I have to drive. That's totalitarian bullshit based on asinine stupidities and pseudoscience. Why do you want so badly to live in a dictatorship?
Joe Capitalist
Racism is a disease
But you have no problem with the government banning books. You're contradicting yourself, Terrance.
Chinese EV dominance hastens end of petrol engine era
This year's Shanghai Auto Show signalled the end of the petrol engine era in China, as domestic electric vehicle brands drive change across the sector and leave foreign companies in the dust, analysts and industry insiders said.
Government support for EVs and growing interest from a vast consumer base has assured Chinese companies' dominance of their home market, the world's largest -- and they are now beginning to set their sights overseas.
Shanghai has shown Chinese brands "can compete with all of the legacy automakers in every way -- performance, quality, comfort, there's nothing they can't do",*said EV specialist Elliot Richards, joking he had seen "a lot of worried-looking German men wandering around".
"I think this show marks the end of the internal combustion engine and the beginning of the EV era," he added.
EV companies are well aware they are closing in on their fossil-fuelled predecessors.
"We regard high-end petrol vehicles such as BMW, Mercedes Benz and Audi as our main competitors," William Li, CEO of the "Chinese Tesla" Nio, told AFP.
According to the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers, electric vehicles made up a quarter of car sales in the country in 2022, a year-on-year increase of 94 percent.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
What I don't get is why YOU are so affixed, to the point of worship, to forcing everyone into an EV. They won't "save the planet." My bet is they do next to nothing to change global CO2 levels. So, why are you championing taking away consumer choice and a free market in favor of a one-size-fits-all option that quite frankly for the vast majority of people sucks hugely. If it didn't suck, people would be flocking to buy EV's but they aren't.
You want one fine. But for what reason are you trying so hard to shove them down everyone else's throats?
Joe Capitalist
Racism is a disease
What? I'm not FORCING anybody to buy anything. Why do you always talk in extremes? Is it because you're a serial extremist?
Maybe it's because I enjoy triggering you MAGA morons. Many of what you say about EVs is old data from 5+ years ago or old right wing sound bites that no longer apply. The batteries have improved, the range has improved, the prices have improved. I tout EVs because they're exceptional. The advantages over ICE cars is obvious. Your criticisms of EVs either no longer apply or are grossly exaggerated. If you weren't so blinded by right wing ideology and propaganda, you'd be able to see what I see. But, I doubt you'll ever escape from your little right wing bubble. What a shame.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
You all but say you are for forcing people to buy one:
If government interference in the market ended tomorrow, within less than a decade EV's would all but disappear from the marketplace.
The disadvantages over ICE vehicles of EV's is also apparent. One of the biggest is they have relatively short service lives. Once the battery dies, whether that's in 7 years or 10, they're finished. That means they really have little resale value in the secondary market (used cars), and this will only hurt lower income people in the long run. It is lower income people that usually depend on cheaper used cars for transportation. If these aren't available, or are so unreliable (eg., the battery is close to its end of life) that they aren't worth buying lower income people will be forced out of the personal vehicle market.
Of course, that might just be what the Left wants, to force most people into using public transit with no real alternatives. After all, that would give them--the Left--more control over people's lives which is what they--and YOU as one of them--seem to want in society. EV's are just another way to limit people's choices and freedoms, something you clearly hate anyone to have.