Easter Rebukes the Christian Will to Power

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BidenPresident

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The spirit of Barabbas tempts Christians even today. You see it when armed Christians idolize their guns, when angry Christians threaten and attempt to intimidate their political opponents, when fearful Christians adopt the tactics and ethos of Trumpism to preserve their power. The spirit of Barabbas most clearly captured the mob on Jan. 6, when praying Americans participated in an insurrection based on a lie.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/09/opinion/easter-christianity-jesus.html
 
"But the resurrection isn’t the only lesson of Easter weekend. The story of Christ’s arrest, trial and crucifixion contains its own lessons, and one of them is quite relevant to this age and to debates about Christian engagement in the public square. Quite simply, the story of Easter weekend rebukes the Christian will to power.
 
Jesus doesn't seem like the type of historical figure who could have jump started a major world religion which lasts for thousands of years.

Muhammed, The Buddha, Moses were great leaders of theocratic nation states or widely revered religious leaders within their lifetimes.

Jesus was executed as a criminal and abandoned by his small group of followers at his arrest and crucifixion.

That is not a promising beginning for a great world religion.

Imo, there is something powerful and compelling about the experience of the earliest christians that we don't really understand or can put our fingers on.
 
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s


Religion is not government


And should never be
 
BidenPresident said:
Not hard to understand, no.
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You should tell the thousands of modern historians who have puzzled over this that you have the answer to how an executed criminal who was abandoned by his companions could have become the basis of a major Mediterranean religion in just a few decades
 
Cypress said:
Jesus doesn't seem like the type of historical figure who could have jump started a major world religion which lasts for thousands of years.

Muhammed, The Buddha, Moses were great leaders of theocratic nation states or widely revered religious leaders within their lifetimes.

Jesus was executed as a criminal and abandoned by his small group of followers at his arrest and crucifixion.

That is not a promising beginning for a great world religion.

Imo, there is something powerful and compelling about the experience of the earliest christians that we don't really understand or can put our fingers on.
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Another possibility is that much of the "origin story" of Christianity was cobbled together well after the fact. Then the story doesn't necessarily have to carry with it a compelling reason for the faith to have survived the ignominious end that Jesus came to (prior to resurrection etc.)

It could be that the "origin story" is mostly myth. Jesus may have been a real person but it wasn't until decades after his death that his character was coopted for a larger movement. This might explain why the "synoptic" gospels all have such jarring differences: they were "just-so stories" meant to address issues that were important to various sub-groups of the new movement which really took off maybe a century after Jesus death. Or why so much of Jesus' origin story has enough overlap with various pagan traditions that Justin Martyr had to invent "diabolical mimicry" to explain away the commonalities between the Christ story and previous pagan stories with similar features.

Just a thought.
 
Cypress said:
You should tell the thousands of modern historians who have puzzled over this that you have the answer to how an executed criminal who was abandoned by his companions could have become the basis of a major Mediterranean religion in just a few decades
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You are tiresome.
 
Quincunx said:
Another possibility is that much of the "origin story" of Christianity was cobbled together well after the fact. Then the story doesn't necessarily have to carry with it a compelling reason for the faith to have survived the ignominious end that Jesus came to (prior to resurrection etc.)

It could be that the "origin story" is mostly myth. Jesus may have been a real person but it wasn't until decades after his death that his character was coopted for a larger movement. This might explain why the "synoptic" gospels all have such jarring differences: they were "just-so stories" meant to address issues that were important to various sub-groups of the new movement which really took off maybe a century after Jesus death. Or why so much of Jesus' origin story has enough overlap with various pagan traditions that Justin Martyr had to invent "diabolical mimicry" to explain away the commonalities between the Christ story and previous pagan stories with similar features.

Just a thought.
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I think the reason Christianity spread like wildfire was it's radical and appealing message of salvation and liberation.

But even that explanation has problems. You couldn't throw a stone in first century Palestine without hitting an itinerate Jewish mystic who was preaching an apocalyptic message.

Why would anyone decide that the one Jewish mystic who was arrested, executed as a criminal, and abandoned by his companions be identified as the ideal archetype to build a mythology around?

First Palestinian Jews expected the messiah to be a powerful figure, not one who would meekly surrender to arrest and torture. And there's the problem that Jewish tradition maintained that anyone who is crucified is cursed.

I just don't see a committee of people sitting around and identifying Jesus as the ideal model to build a mythology around
 
Cypress said:
I think the reason Christianity spread like wildfire was it's radical and appealing message of salvation and liberation.

But even that explanation has problems. You couldn't throw a stone in first century Palestine without hitting an itinerate Jewish mystic who was preaching an apocalyptic message.

Why would anyone decide that the one Jewish mystic who was arrested, executed as a criminal, and abandoned by his companions be identified as the ideal archetype to build a mythology around?

First Palestinian Jews expected the messiah to be a powerful figure, not one who would meekly surrender to arrest and torture. And there's the problem that Jewish tradition maintained that anyone who is crucified is cursed.

I just don't see a committee of people sitting around and identifying Jesus as the ideal model to build a mythology around
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That's a good point (esp related to the Jews original view of what the Messiah would actually be). And it's fair cop to note that selected Jesus out of all the itinerant preachers wandering around Judea would not have been the one to pick for a religion, but, by the same token, how weird is it that an entire religion (Mormonism) was founded the way it was complete with super-sketchy activities around tablets no one can actually say were ever seen or even when he purchased and mistranslated Egyptian writings which proved to be nothing like what he actually said they were when heiroglyphics were finally deciphered? Or the rise of Scientology from bizarre sci-fi roots.

I am utterly fascinated at how religions arise. Ancient religions have the advantage of origins that are shrouded in lost history while modern religions show us how random the seeds can be. Even when we know how silly the modern origins of a religion can be we still assume that ancient religions were somehow imbued with more "truth".

(Fair Notice: I'm an atheist so my view on religion is far more skeptical than what a believer may think or feel.)
 
BidenPresident said:
The spirit of Barabbas tempts Christians even today. You see it when armed Christians idolize their guns, when angry Christians threaten and attempt to intimidate their political opponents, when fearful Christians adopt the tactics and ethos of Trumpism to preserve their power. The spirit of Barabbas most clearly captured the mob on Jan. 6, when praying Americans participated in an insurrection based on a lie.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/09/opinion/easter-christianity-jesus.html
Click to expand...

There are groups of Christians that claim to be Churches, they aren’t…. They are organizations with the goal of political power and control.
 
evince said:
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s


Religion is not government


And should never be
Click to expand...

Caesar was viewed as a god. And upon his death in 42 BC, was officially recognized as a divine god.
:dunno:

Are you going to fight to abolish the 15 Islamic theocracies.
 
BidenPresident said:
The spirit of Barabbas tempts Christians even today. You see it when armed Christians idolize their guns, when angry Christians threaten and attempt to intimidate their political opponents, when fearful Christians adopt the tactics and ethos of Trumpism to preserve their power. The spirit of Barabbas most clearly captured the mob on Jan. 6, when praying Americans participated in an insurrection based on a lie.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/09/opinion/easter-christianity-jesus.html
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is this your interpretation as a christian?

are you a christian?
 
BidenPresident said:
The spirit of Barabbas tempts Christians even today. You see it when armed Christians idolize their guns, when angry Christians threaten and attempt to intimidate their political opponents, when fearful Christians adopt the tactics and ethos of Trumpism to preserve their power. The spirit of Barabbas most clearly captured the mob on Jan. 6, when praying Americans participated in an insurrection based on a lie.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/09/opinion/easter-christianity-jesus.html
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how about nakedly politically based ridiculous indictments.

is that intimidation?
 
Jarod said:
There are groups of Christians that claim to be Churches, they aren’t…. They are organizations with the goal of political power and control.
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real christians go mostly by the golden rule.

that's really the whole of the law.

worldy nominally christian power orgs, as you mention, fight tooth and nail this simple formula for heaven on earth.
 
Jarod said:
If politically biased indictments were happening…. I would agree.
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