Colleges Should Be More Than Just Vocational Schools

Into the Night said:
Any electrician can run an electrician business very well also. You do not need a college degree to run a business well.
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This is definitely not true. There are very good tradespeople that make really lousy contractors and businessmen. There are really lousy tradespeople that make good contractors and businessmen. The two are definitely not interchangeable. You don't need a degree to be a contractor, but you need the right mindset, and a different level of intellect than it takes to simply be really good at doing a trade.
 
DeSantis went to Harvard Law. Trump went to Penn.

Amazing right wingers admire them as political leaders. Why not bash them for wasting their time in college?
 
BidenPresident said:
America’s higher education system was founded on the liberal arts and the widespread understanding that mass access to art, culture, language and science were essential if America was to thrive.

In 1947, a presidential commission bemoaned an education system where a student “may have gained technical or professional training” while being “only incidentally, if at all, made ready for performing his duties as a man, a parent and a citizen.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/02/opinion/humanities-liberal-arts-policy-higher-education.html
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Not really. Way too many people, who don't need to, go to college.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
This is definitely not true.
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It is true.
T. A. Gardner said:
There are very good tradespeople that make really lousy contractors and businessmen.
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So? You are making the same compositional fallacy that Walt is.
T. A. Gardner said:
There are really lousy tradespeople that make good contractors and businessmen.
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True. There are also really lousy tradespeople that don't make good contractors and businessmen. You are making a special pleading fallacy.
T. A. Gardner said:
The two are definitely not interchangeable.
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False dichotomy fallacy. These aren't the only two options.
T. A. Gardner said:
You don't need a degree to be a contractor, but you need the right mindset, and a different level of intellect than it takes to simply be really good at doing a trade.
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Agreed, which means my original statement is True. You don't need a degree to be a successful businessman, including a successful businessman in the trades.

Example:
I recently worked with an paving contractor for asphalt work. He is a tradesman, and a very good one. Indeed, he helped lay the asphalt on a state route for 30 miles of roadway and did an excellent job.
Then the covid19 economic depression started by Democrats struck. He was thrown out of work.

He started his own paving company DURING the covid19 'epidemic'. It now employs a couple of dozen employees, and he is making a very nice profit. He still works the trade itself too. He worked my contract and I must say it's excellent work.

Nothing prevents any electrician good at his trade from doing the same thing except his own mindset.
 
Yakuda said:
Not really. Way too many people, who don't need to, go to college.
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The alt right advocates for people getting the least education they can survive on. They do not "need" to go to college, so why should they go? Because it will improve their lives.
 
Into the Night said:
It is true.

So? You are making the same compositional fallacy that Walt is.

True. There are also really lousy tradespeople that don't make good contractors and businessmen. You are making a special pleading fallacy.

False dichotomy fallacy. These aren't the only two options.

Agreed, which means my original statement is True. You don't need a degree to be a successful businessman, including a successful businessman in the trades.

Example:
I recently worked with an paving contractor for asphalt work. He is a tradesman, and a very good one. Indeed, he helped lay the asphalt on a state route for 30 miles of roadway and did an excellent job.
Then the covid19 economic depression started by Democrats struck. He was thrown out of work.

He started his own paving company DURING the covid19 'epidemic'. It now employs a couple of dozen employees, and he is making a very nice profit. He still works the trade itself too. He worked my contract and I must say it's excellent work.

Nothing prevents any electrician good at his trade from doing the same thing except his own mindset.
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I know from decades of experience that contracting and working a trade requires two very different skill sets. You can be good at one but not the other. Most electricians will not make good contractors.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I know from decades of experience that contracting and working a trade requires two very different skill sets. You can be good at one but not the other. Most electricians will not make good contractors.
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So you don't have the mindset to start and run a successful business, by your own admission. You don't get to speak for anyone else but you.
That's not an insult by the way. Not everyone has the mindset to start and run a successful business. That does not mean they are terrible tradesmen by any means.

A business is not necessarily a contractor, although contractors themselves can certainly start and run a successful business.

Make no mistake. I have great respect for all competent tradesmen, including you, no doubt. I also have great respect for anyone with the balls to start and run a successful business too.
And the competent tradesman that starts and runs his own business successfully? That's the American dream, dude. No college degree required for ANY OF IT.
 
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Walt said:
The alt right advocates for people getting the least education they can survive on. They do not "need" to go to college, so why should they go? Because it will improve their lives.
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It does not improve any life. Life is what YOU make of it. No college takes of the place of you and your own decisions.
If you want to throw your money away on a Liberal Arts degree and wind up working at McDonalds as a fry cook with no way to pay back the huge loan you took out to do it, that's your decision. You are free to make it. You are NOT free of the consequences of that decision.
 
Into the Night said:
It does not improve any life. Life is what YOU make of it. No college takes of the place of you and your own decisions.
If you want to throw your money away on a Liberal Arts degree and wind up working at McDonalds as a fry cook with no way to pay back the huge loan you took out to do it, that's your decision. You are free to make it. You are NOT free of the consequences of that decision.
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Translation: Fuck college. I didn't go and look how I turned out.

Yes, Sybil. Look at how you turned out.
 
Into the Night said:
It does not improve any life. Life is what YOU make of it. No college takes of the place of you and your own decisions.
If you want to throw your money away on a Liberal Arts degree and wind up working at McDonalds as a fry cook with no way to pay back the huge loan you took out to do it, that's your decision. You are free to make it. You are NOT free of the consequences of that decision.
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Even the McDonalds fry cook has a more fulfilled life because of things he learned to appreciate in college. It is not just about jobs and money.
 
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