When the Hell did THIS happen?

D

Dixie - In Memoriam

New member
I preface these remarks by saying, this is mostly second-hand information, and I am not totally aware of all the details. I haven't researched it, and I don't claim to be blaming anyone or starting an argument, because I am largely uninformed on this.... but...

Apparently, there was a man in a semi stopped on the interstate here for speeding, and in the cab of his truck, they found $300k in cash. Although he was not charged with a crime and only cited for speeding, the authorities confiscated the cash. This seems like unreasonable seizure, if you ask me... but a buddy at work says it's the law now, if you have over $10k in cash, the cops can confiscate it! I'm like... WTF? When did THIS happen?

I know that cops can seize money IF they find drugs, they can seize property as well, but there is a criminal charge and reasonable cause to believe any money or property is the result of illegal drug trade, I get that... but if you aren't breaking any laws and you happen to have a bag full of cash... they can just take it? That doesn't seem constitutional to me.
 
Dixie said:
I preface these remarks by saying, this is mostly second-hand information, and I am not totally aware of all the details. I haven't researched it, and I don't claim to be blaming anyone or starting an argument, because I am largely uninformed on this.... but...

Apparently, there was a man in a semi stopped on the interstate here for speeding, and in the cab of his truck, they found $300k in cash. Although he was not charged with a crime and only cited for speeding, the authorities confiscated the cash. This seems like unreasonable seizure, if you ask me... but a buddy at work says it's the law now, if you have over $10k in cash, the cops can confiscate it! I'm like... WTF? When did THIS happen?

I know that cops can seize money IF they find drugs, they can seize property as well, but there is a criminal charge and reasonable cause to believe any money or property is the result of illegal drug trade, I get that... but if you aren't breaking any laws and you happen to have a bag full of cash... they can just take it? That doesn't seem constitutional to me.
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Yep, thats the law. The assumption is that you are carrying that much cash to make an illegal purchase or something.

It goes against everything the legal system is SUPPOSED to stand for. They see a large amount of cash, and you have to prove you are innocent.

Ain't freedom great?
 
Dixie said:
I preface these remarks by saying, this is mostly second-hand information, and I am not totally aware of all the details. I haven't researched it, and I don't claim to be blaming anyone or starting an argument, because I am largely uninformed on this.... but...
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That pretty much describes just about every one of your posts Dixie :pke:

Apparently, there was a man in a semi stopped on the interstate here for speeding, and in the cab of his truck, they found $300k in cash. Although he was not charged with a crime and only cited for speeding, the authorities confiscated the cash. This seems like unreasonable seizure, if you ask me... but a buddy at work says it's the law now, if you have over $10k in cash, the cops can confiscate it! I'm like... WTF? When did THIS happen?
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Where have you been Dixie? This was a law signed by the Reagan administration and reviewed by SCOTUS back in the mid to late 80's as part of the war on drugs. I agree, it would seem like illegal search and seizure wouldnt' it?

I know that cops can seize money IF they find drugs, they can seize property as well, but there is a criminal charge and reasonable cause to believe any money or property is the result of illegal drug trade, I get that... but if you aren't breaking any laws and you happen to have a bag full of cash... they can just take it? That doesn't seem constitutional to me.
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It's called a rebuttable presumption. The presumption of law enforcement is that you have that much cash in order to perform some criminal activity and that it's up to you to rebut that presumption and yea...it sucks.
 
who is dumb enough to be driving around with 300k in cash and speeding. lol.. tho 10k is kind of low. I had 17k cash when i went to buy my truck.
 
Chapdog said:
who is dumb enough to be driving around with 300k in cash and speeding. lol.. tho 10k is kind of low. I had 17k cash when i went to buy my truck.
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It probably depends on the state. It might be federal though.

One problem is that they probably set these limits back in like the 80's where 10k was worth what 20 or 30k is today.
 
Chapdog said:
who is dumb enough to be driving around with 300k in cash and speeding. lol.. tho 10k is kind of low. I had 17k cash when i went to buy my truck.
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This first came to public light when use car dealers, who commonly carry around that kind of cash to make purchases, were pulled over by police and had their cash compensated. The problem is, there is virtually no way a person can prove that the cash was intended for legitimate person under the old truism "Anything is possible" since it's impossible to rule out that possibility, the money is rarely returned to it's rightful owner. In my opinion the police who confiscate money with out probable cause are simply common thiefs.
 
Dixie, I don't see a problem with that law. Cash is technically notes written on the full faith and credit of the US, so that's probably how they deal with the Constitutional issue. Plus anyone with that amount of cash that obtained it legally has a safer, alternate means to carry it (cashier's check).
 
the forfeiture law doesn't confiscate cash because it COULD be used for an illegal purchase. The law 'presumes' that the cash is from illegal activities. The SCOTUS ruled that the seizure does not violate the 4th Amendment because its the CASH being seized and not you. It's also a presumption of the law that the cash (or property in general) is the result of illegal activities, so the property is charged with the crime, which makes it necessary for you to prove that it isn't.
 
Southern Man said:
I doubt that.
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he would actually be correct. rarely does a person of middle class standing have the financial resources to fight the government for return of cash or property and if they do, it usually costs about as much as the property would be worth anyway, making it futile to try to reattain the cash or property.
 
Southern Man said:
Dixie, I don't see a problem with that law. Cash is technically notes written on the full faith and credit of the US, so that's probably how they deal with the Constitutional issue. Plus anyone with that amount of cash that obtained it legally has a safer, alternate means to carry it (cashier's check).
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The example used by a previous poster stands as rebuttal to your statement.

When I have purchased used vehicles, I carry enough cash, but try and bargain them down. It works every time. But it means I do not know the exact price of the car. And the way to get them to keep going lower when they stall is to pull out a wad of bills and watch their eyes start to glow.

Besides, the point is that I earned my money. If I want to put it in a bank or carry it around my neck in a clear plastic bag is up to me. I am not a criminal because I have my hard earned pay in cash.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
he would actually be correct. rarely does a person of middle class standing have the financial resources to fight the government for return of cash or property and if they do, it usually costs about as much as the property would be worth anyway, making it futile to try to reattain the cash or property.
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I don't see how. If you had money in an account, took it out as cash and was traveling, it should be pretty damn easy to prove that it was yours. Note that I said earlier "if the money was legally obtained".
 
WinterBorn said:
The example used by a previous poster stands as rebuttal to your statement.

When I have purchased used vehicles, I carry enough cash, but try and bargain them down. It works every time. But it means I do not know the exact price of the car. And the way to get them to keep going lower when they stall is to pull out a wad of bills and watch their eyes start to glow.

Besides, the point is that I earned my money. If I want to put it in a bank or carry it around my neck in a clear plastic bag is up to me. I am not a criminal because I have my hard earned pay in cash.
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I appreciate what your saying and in principle I agree.....but this falls under the philosophical principle of "Dead right but still dead.".

That argument isn't going to do you a lot of good when they confiscate your money.
 
Southern Man said:
I don't see how. If you had money in an account, took it out as cash and was traveling, it should be pretty damn easy to prove that it was yours. Note that I said earlier "if the money was legally obtained".
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They do not confiscate it because it is necessarily stolen or gained from illegal sources.

They also claim you are going to do something illegal with it.




Mott, that is one good reason not to carry large amounts of cash very often.
 
Southern Man said:
I don't see how. If you had money in an account, took it out as cash and was traveling, it should be pretty damn easy to prove that it was yours. Note that I said earlier "if the money was legally obtained".
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its not about proving it was yours. it was in your posession so of course it's yours. The government is going to make you prove that you didn't obtain it illegally, meaning that if you had 300k in cash, the government is going to make you produce years of income tax records and anything else that they decide they want to see, and then a judge is going to have final say on it. how much do you think a lawyer is going to charge for a case like that against the government?
 
WinterBorn said:
They do not confiscate it because it is necessarily stolen or gained from illegal sources.

They also claim you are going to do something illegal with it.




Mott, that is one good reason not to carry large amounts of cash very often.
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So what? You'd have an appointment scheduled, therefore a witness to vouch for you. That this, unless you're in the habit of having a bag of cash around just in case you happen to drive by that cherry vehicle that you just have to have then and there. Pppfffttt....
 
SmarterThanYou said:
its not about proving it was yours. it was in your posession so of course it's yours. The government is going to make you prove that you didn't obtain it illegally, meaning that if you had 300k in cash, the government is going to make you produce years of income tax records and anything else that they decide they want to see, and then a judge is going to have final say on it. how much do you think a lawyer is going to charge for a case like that against the government?
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My lawyer would probably charge me about $1500. Its a slam dunk case.
 
The gov keeps the money down south all the time. Dixie prob comes from much richer stock than me because I heard and read about it for decades and it's definatley related to drug suspision.
 
Buffalo Soldier said:
The gov keeps the money down south all the time. Dixie prob comes from much richer stock than me because I heard and read about it for decades and it's definatley related to drug suspision.
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No, actually that is why it was such a shocker to me I guess... I can't imagine ever having $300k in cash on me, for any reason. I think it's kind of a dumb point to try and make, that this is solely a problem faced by the poor. lol

I understand suspicion of drug activity, and if you want to have undercover surveillance put on someone who is found to have that kind of loot, I am okay with that, I understand there is a "suspicion" factor here, but to just take someone's money despite the lack of criminal charges, seems to be a direct violation of the Constitution. What happened to 'innocent until proven guilty?' What happened to 'due process?' Habeas Corpus?
 
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